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devout
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Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Location: the atl |
160.  Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Yukidaore wrote: | | I've been working on building a pair of these pads the last couple days, and have been having some trouble with the soldering like several other people here. I haven't been really fond of the method from the start, since an accidental pull on the wire could make for extremely unpleasant repairs, and since it makes disassembly somewhat difficult besides. So I spent some time thinking about alternatives, and I'm wondering; could I perhaps just put a washer in place of the penny, put a screw through the panel, and attach the wire on the underside? Or would that cause problems with conductivity, or some other aspect I'm not thinking about? |
The short answer is you can do whatever you want...
A properly soldered joint will be stronger than the wire itself, and there's really no risk of it breaking. (Try yanking a capacitor out of a circuit board...) If you're having trouble getting it hot enough, maybe you need a better soldering iron. And make sure the penny is sitting on something that wont conduct much heat, like a rock. Also if you're not using copper coins/wires or solder recommended for copper that would be bad.
But if you want a different technique, what you described sounds fine. The only problem is how to attach the wire to the screw, and what to do with the screw sticking out the bottom of the panel. You might try this:
Drill a large flat indentation, like is described for the penny, a little bigger than your washer. Drill a small hole through the middle that you can screw into (or if you're using self drilling screws you dont really need to predrill it) drill another small hole on the edge of the indentation. Now cover with foil as before. Cut the slits in the foil over the indentation and push it down into the indentation, like before. Poke a hole in the foil over the small edge hole, and feed your wire up through that hole and through the foil from below. Strip an inch or so of insulation off the wire, and kind of coil the wire up so that it is in the indentation, on top of the foil. Now lay your washer on top of that, and screw your screw through the center of the washer, clamping the wire down between the washer and the foil.
I think that should work fine. Just make sure the indentation is deep enough that the screw head is below the level of the foil (so it doesnt hit the sheet metal). Also you'll want a fairly large washer, but with a small hole so you can use a small screw (short head). I think these are called fender washers, but i might be wrong. Also if the screw point sticks out the bottom of the panel, you might need to saw it off, or screw it right into the base (might need to plan ahead to do that).
I think this might be a better idea than the original setup, so I took the time to draw a crappy picture to clear it up:
This still would be a pain to fix if the wire broke, but not as bad as the original because you dont need to cover the hole with tape, so if it broke you could just remove the sheet metal, take out the screw, and replace the wire.
I know nothing about the logitech gamepad, but if you remove the rubber things from over the directional buttons, you should be able to follow their wiring back to the solder points that are shown on that diagram.
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Lawrencesss
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Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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| 161. Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Yukidaore wrote: | | Also, could someone please help me figure out where to solder the wires to on a logitech precision gamepad pro? |
Use the 6 wires that go to the 4 trigger switches on the gamepad. There is a 3 wire ribbon cable on each side of the pcb. 1 GND each side, with 2 switch wires. Saves the drama of soldering to those fiddly traces.
| Yukidaore wrote: | | I've been working on building a pair of these pads the last couple days, and have been having some trouble with the soldering like several other people here. I haven't been really fond of the method from the start, since an accidental pull on the wire could make for extremely unpleasant repairs, |
Soldering to a shiny penny is incredibly easy. If you do not have a shiny penny, throw some into vinegar/lemon juice for 30 minutes.
As for complicated repairs, it would take some pretty incredible force to break the solder after it had been epoxied in. I suspect the wire would break before the solder joint glued/compressed to the wood. |
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Yukidaore
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Joined: 22 Jul 2007
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| 162. Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies, everyone.
| Quote: | | As for complicated repairs, it would take some pretty incredible force to break the solder after it had been epoxied in. I suspect the wire would break before the solder joint glued/compressed to the wood. |
You're right, as I accidentally found out. The wire actually tore where it was inside the hole I'd drilled. Thankfully, I hadn't even put the foil on the panel yet, but the epoxy actually even took a good sized chunk of the wood with it when I punched the penny back out with a screwdriver.
Anyways, my thought for how to deal with the screw on the underside was to get one about 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch, drill through the larger indentation with a bit sized for the screw just barely into the base, and then drill a slightly larger hole into the base at the point of contact. That, or just use a wood boring bit on the underside of the panel, too, to make a small depression to work with there. I was figuring I could either just wrap the wire around the screw at that point, or even solder it on. Either way, it should make for easier repairs should that ever be necessary. Though come to think of it, doing it this way might make it possible to dent the sheet metal in the spot where the hole is.
Again, thanks for the help, everyone. |
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Maliciant
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Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| 163. Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think what you are talking about will make repairs more likely to be needed. My wiring goes out the bottom of the pad, I used nuts and bolts to hold the sensors in, so I had to put feet to elevate it anyway. The wiring all runs underneath but I put in several extra screws so that I could wrap my wiring around the screws at a few points. You could drag my control around by the cord and almost none of the force would reach the solder joints (if any) though the wiring itself from the network cables is somewhat stiff so I imagine it could break pretty easily if bent much. Sodder doesn't stick to washers very well in case the idea of soddering the wire to the washers starts to seem like a good idea (because they'd be easily removeable etc).
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Yukidaore
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Joined: 22 Jul 2007
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| 164. Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Hm, thanks for the input. I actually made those same modifications to mine; planning to run the wires underneath, bolts to avoid stripping problems, and feet (Though I couldn't find any affordable non-slip feet, so I'm going to put some of the non-slip padding around the feet and staple it on to the sides). Hadn't thought to add some extra screws to alleviate tension, though. Anyways, my previous cheap soldering iron died in a freak accident involving a nice gust of wind and a large wooden board while I was away for a minute, and my new one seems to be less averse to soldering onto pennies, so all's happy now. Though it does refuse to let itself be tinned for some reason. |
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Maliciant
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Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| 165. Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, feet were a problem, I ended up just using spare pieces of the base board for feet, it doesn't move much (on carpet), though if you step too close to an edge it'll tip slightly... I need to adjust the position of the feet to fix that issue but haven't bothered yet, I figure a staple and some rubber of some kind is in the near future. Walmart sells some stuff that I think would work awesome for putting on the feet, I think you might want to consider glue for that instead of staples, I think a staple is likely to make it easy for the padding to tear where it's punctured. I don't know what kind of glue would work well on wood and rubber though.
I couldn't find any kind of rubber feet that were suitable, I originally thought I could get some that were threaded and used those instead of nuts to hold the bolts in, probably wouldn't have worked as well as I thought even if I found what I was looking for since some of the bolts in the center are so close to each other and not all the bolts go straight down (measurement issue with the sheet metal cutting leading to some of the holes being too close to the edge etc). I do get compliments on the way the pads look despite the less than impressive craftmanship (primarilly asthetically, functional/strength wise they are great, just no one will mistake it for a 'store bought' item).
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Lawrencesss
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Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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| 166. Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to construct this pad so It is the best It can be, and works flawlessly for a long time to come, I suggest bolting and screwing the switch panels.
Use bolts from the top to provide tension on the steel and to calibrate the switches, and then use 4 screws from the bottom to hold the panel in place.
I have found that the amount of force required to keep the switch working is far less then the force needed to hold the step securely to the panel, so after a few weeks of heavy use, the panels slip around 2-3mm in each direction.
Realigning the panels and screwing them in form the bottom has worked wonders.
On the topic of where to put the wiring, I ran a router around the top of the base piece, planned the wiring, and put small line clips where each panel would go. So tripping over the cord would cause no damage, I routed a double S shape with some sharp bends to sit the cat5 cable in. You can swing it around and around by the cord now and cause no damage!
As for the feet. Initially I put a 4 inch square of 3/4" ply on each corner, because I play on a concrete surface that isn't exactly flat. That left far far too much flex in the main platform. The solution I use now, is another piece of 33" square 3/4" ply, with holes drilled for the screws, and a quarter of a mousepad glued and stapled to each corner. Works flawlessly, the pad does not bend flex bounce or rock like it used to! |
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Eduardo1
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Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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| 167. Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: Solid cat5 is bad, Stranded is good |
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I see alot of you guys worried about breaking the wires in cat5. If you buy CAT5 at a store like home depot it will most likely be ridgid because all the copper is one solid piece.
This type of cable is not meant for any movement (run in walls and left there). Patch cables, (the kind that you plug into your computer) are far more flexible. This is because the wire inside is stranded like rope.
If you can use stranded cables at the connections to the controller, you will have far less worries about breaking things off at the solder points as you move your wires around.
Although like any cables you need to put something inplace to hold the cable down in case you do pull on them. |
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cautery
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Near Ft. Worth, TX, USA |
| 168. Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: Slick Design!!! |
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I've only played DDR on an arcade once (and the GameCube knock-off w/ a soft pad once), but I liked it so much that I want a GOOD version to play at home. Soft pads suck vs. the arcade... of course. Reviewing the many designs available, this one seems to be the best overall choice. I'm an interminable tinkerer (read over-engineering hack  ), so I will be using this design as a jumping-off point to build ours.
Questions:
1 - What is considered to be the "standard" recess for the active steps vs. the diagonals.
Here are a few of the things I've run across that I will likely introduce into my build (note: I will not be holding strictly to the low-$$ design criteria. My aim is to add flexibility into the design with respect to controller/console/game choices, maintenance, durability, et al.)
1 - Separate fastening for steps to base and steel step covers.
For step to base fasteners, I propose the use of socket-head cap screws, flat washers, and threaded inserts. The threaded inserts will be installed in the steps. The screws will be inserted from the bottom into a washer-lined recess with a slightly over-sized through-hole. The threaded insert allows for repeated disassembly without stripping out the wood. The recess allows the screw head to remain recessed to maintain a flat bottom. The washer provides an increased bearing surface for additional clamping force. The over-sized through hole provides tolerance for aligning the steps squarely. Using blue thread-locker on the screws will keep them tight. If the wood compresses some over time, simply remove the screws, re-apply the thread-locker, and re-install. Proper spacing, and equal torque on all screws will reduce the possibility for warping and increase rigidity.
For the metal step covers, I propose the use of button (or flange-button) socket-head cap screws, flat washers, and lock nuts (nylon insert). The screw head style will be chosen by determining which head diameter gives the proper calibration deflection performance while reducing the potential for localized metal deformation. The key here is to avoid the potential for metal deformation and the corresponding reduction in calibration range. The screw will of course, pass through the metal cover, thence through and over-sized through hole. The reverse side of the step will have a counter-bored recess large enough to accommodate the flat washer and deep enough to house the lock nut flush or slightly recessed to the bottom step surface. When the step "module" is test assembled, the lock nut will be "fixed" in the recess such that it will not spin, when the screw is adjusted from the top. I haven't settled on a security method yet, but I suspect that I will use epoxy. Worst case scenario is that after many calibration iterations, the nylon insert will cease to hold calibration. This assembly will allow the replacement of the lock nut. Simply remove the metal step cover, insert a punch (or similar) through the over-sized through-hole contacting the flat washer and tap the nut/washer/epoxy plug out. Reassemble with new nut, insure operation and epoxy new nut in place.
This fastening scheme will allow for complete disassembly/reassembly for maintenance, repair, modification.
2 - Step side of sensor contact: There will be extra socket-head cap screws and threaded inserts. Drill the 3/4" recess in the top such that it will accommodate 3 pennies (or 3/4" copper discs) and the height of the cap screw. Drill a through hole and install the threaded insert. Drill a small through hole adjacent to the wall of the recess. Drill all three pennies with a through hole just larger than the screw. Grind a notch in the side of the bottom penny.
The wire comes up through the small hole. Strip it enough to do a coil. Insert the first penny with notch over wire. Set second penny in. Fold aluminum foil in over second penny. Insert third penny. Install screw and tighten, insuring that torquing the screw down does not tear away aluminum contact material. Use thread locker on screw to insure that it stays tight. (You could do this with 2 pennies... simply put wire and aluminum both between the pennies.)
No tape required, and if screw is exactly flush with level of aluminum foil, then you essentially have eliminated this as a potential dead spot.
BOTTOM LINE ON FASTENING - If planned correctly, you can minimize the fastener costs while getting the ability to do a complete disassembly. Additionally, if the screws are chosen properly, you can disassemble the entire thing with a single hex wrench!!! And socket head cap screws are infinitely easier and more durable IMHO than Phillips or slotted screws.
I plan to use the industrial aluminum foil, which is somewhat thicker and hopefully easier to work with. Additionally, I will likely use a 15 or 30 minute epoxy to get more working time. I'm going to also test doing a direct roll-out from the roll to the step to attempt to minimize wrinkling.
3 - Cardboard spacer ideas - I will likely use a different material... The idea is to increase longevity and reduce the width of the material required with an eye toward maximizing the live contact area. I'll also probably bod the material directly to the step rather than using masking tape... again to maximize active contact area.
Ideally, I'm thinking that I could use either some o-ring stock or screening cord I have on hand from other projects. Of course, this requires the routering of a channel around the periphery of the step, but I have the tools to do this (having made speaker grills before).
4 - Connecting wire to metal step cover - This one I am still working on, but the result will be a concealed and removable/repairable connection.
5 - Wire routing and connection - Pretty simple here. I have a router. I'll router channels in the base (or steps) to route the wires. I suspect that I will initially put (a) CAT-5 female connector(s) in the base. The directional steps only require 5 wires to the controller. This leaves 3 available in a single CAT-5 run approach. I don't know all the particulars, but it appears that this leaves me short one conductor if I choose to have the other four "buttons" referenced (be they full steps or simple buttons somewhere on one of the corners). Ideally, I only want a single cable leaving the pad...
Optionally, I could mount the controller(s) in/on the base... But that might limit flexibility. As I have not determined how I want to use the pad (which console(s), PC, etc.) and haven't studied the controller issue yet, I may just leave it generic with a plug of some sort.
I am a cable/wiring freak from way back, so I am not so worried about this. I can come up with a flexible solution given time. With respect to the wiring and controller, I am most concerned with making sure that cable length et al. doesn't jeopardize the electrical characteristics required to function with all required controllers/adapters.
This is going to be a fun project...
I don't need/want the lights and graphics.... That's why I chose this design. What I want to end up with is something that looks more like a fine piece of furniture that functions super reliably.
Thanks for all the work you put in on this design!!! 
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Clay Autery
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Maliciant
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Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| 169. Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Just an update, one of my controllers has an issue with the left sensor now, it'll do a rapid fire kind of thing if stepping in some places and is really inconsistant in others, it will pretty much always fail to do holds on that button, this seemed to start when it was not in use, I didn't see any dings in the metal though it's possible there is a small one, I expect it'll just take some cardboard replacement to straighten out, I won't know for a while since it's easier for now to just stick the pad behind my couch, and use my other pad.
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Yukidaore
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Joined: 22 Jul 2007
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| 170. Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| For anyone wanting to further improve the aesthetics of their pad, you might consider using carriage bolts in place of screws. Very smooth, low, and they look quite nice besides. |
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5by5
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Joined: 24 Jun 2004
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| 171. Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: wiring question |
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After reading this entire thread I decided to use my limited construction skills to attempt this pad. I'm at the wiring/soldering point and have a few questions. Keep in mind, my knowledge of wiring and circuits could fill a thimble, with room left over. Any help would be appreciated!
I'm using a crappy softpad as my controller. I took it apart and everything is clearly labeled as far as what button goes to what circuit. I also plan on using the CAT5 connector as in methejuggler's post #63 so I can use this pad for mutle systems.
My question is, I planned on adding buttons for the Start and Select like AAA_dreams post#93. But now that I'm looking at it I'm not sure I can do that and use the CAT5 connector/multi-system option. Is it possible? Or am I making this needlessly complicated?
Thanks for your help!!
5by5 |
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slvrshdw
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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| 172. Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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im not looking at the posts, but as long as you have one wire for every button (L/R/U/D/ST/SEL) + 1 for ground, which should all fit in 1 CAT5 cable (which is 8 wires), and you need 7 for the above configuration.
so, it should work fine
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rlpowell
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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| 173. Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: Radical redesign?! |
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| devout wrote: | But then I thought.... I see no reason you'd even need to cut the grooves. You could just use 11"x11" flat sheets of steel and screw them directly to the top surface of a 33"x33" piece of wood.
The only thing you'd need to worry about is sharp edges on the metal, but you could file them or maybe cover the edges with some kind of tape. Or you could still add diagonal pieces, but they'd only need to be slightly thicker than the sheet metal, so just cut them out of some very thin plywood, or use a sheet of plastic or carpet or something.
This could make a very interesting project for someone looking to simplify the design even further... |
Dude, that's an *awesome* idea. I'm going to take a crack at it and let you know how it goes, since it doesn't look like anyone else has done it.
My design will be a little different, because:
1. I can't get past my distrust of aluminum foil.
2. The whole hole + penny thing seems really over-complicated to me, I'm afraid; I can't see any good reason to not just attach the wire directly to the bottom conductor.
I'll try to make a good writeup of my version if it works; mind if I steal lists of materials and some of the basic instructions from your page, devout? (with attribution, *of course*).
-Robin |
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devout
Trick Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Location: the atl |
| 174. Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Radical redesign?! |
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| rlpowell wrote: | | devout wrote: | But then I thought.... I see no reason you'd even need to cut the grooves. You could just use 11"x11" flat sheets of steel and screw them directly to the top surface of a 33"x33" piece of wood.
The only thing you'd need to worry about is sharp edges on the metal, but you could file them or maybe cover the edges with some kind of tape. Or you could still add diagonal pieces, but they'd only need to be slightly thicker than the sheet metal, so just cut them out of some very thin plywood, or use a sheet of plastic or carpet or something.
This could make a very interesting project for someone looking to simplify the design even further... |
Dude, that's an *awesome* idea. I'm going to take a crack at it and let you know how it goes, since it doesn't look like anyone else has done it.
My design will be a little different, because:
1. I can't get past my distrust of aluminum foil.
2. The whole hole + penny thing seems really over-complicated to me, I'm afraid; I can't see any good reason to not just attach the wire directly to the bottom conductor.
I'll try to make a good writeup of my version if it works; mind if I steal lists of materials and some of the basic instructions from your page, devout? (with attribution, *of course*).
-Robin |
Woops, zoned out there for a couple uhhh seasons....
Like I said I originally planned to build one of these myself, but I lost interest after everyone abandoned the pad building forum late last year (I guess homepadding is more of a summer time activity)
If you do try it out, be sure to let us know how it goes. Your suggestions seem pretty good. honestly the reason my pad is the way it is has a lot to do with what materials I had laying around the house. Feel free to take anything off my page that you want. (preferably accompanied with a link back to my page).
Good luck!
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methejuggler
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Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada |
| 175. Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Maliciant wrote: | | Just an update, one of my controllers has an issue with the left sensor now, it'll do a rapid fire kind of thing if stepping in some places and is really inconsistant in others, it will pretty much always fail to do holds on that button, this seemed to start when it was not in use, I didn't see any dings in the metal though it's possible there is a small one, I expect it'll just take some cardboard replacement to straighten out, I won't know for a while since it's easier for now to just stick the pad behind my couch, and use my other pad. |
I had that happen with one of mine too... turned out to be that the penny didn't have firm contact with the tinfoil... after opening it up, polishing the penny, and taping another piece of tinfoil over top of it to clamp both sides of the penny in tin foil, it all worked perfectly again...
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methejuggler
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Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada |
| 176. Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Radical redesign?! |
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| rlpowell wrote: | | devout wrote: | But then I thought.... I see no reason you'd even need to cut the grooves. You could just use 11"x11" flat sheets of steel and screw them directly to the top surface of a 33"x33" piece of wood.
The only thing you'd need to worry about is sharp edges on the metal, but you could file them or maybe cover the edges with some kind of tape. Or you could still add diagonal pieces, but they'd only need to be slightly thicker than the sheet metal, so just cut them out of some very thin plywood, or use a sheet of plastic or carpet or something.
This could make a very interesting project for someone looking to simplify the design even further... |
Dude, that's an *awesome* idea. I'm going to take a crack at it and let you know how it goes, since it doesn't look like anyone else has done it.
My design will be a little different, because:
1. I can't get past my distrust of aluminum foil.
2. The whole hole + penny thing seems really over-complicated to me, I'm afraid; I can't see any good reason to not just attach the wire directly to the bottom conductor.
I'll try to make a good writeup of my version if it works; mind if I steal lists of materials and some of the basic instructions from your page, devout? (with attribution, *of course*).
-Robin |
I actually ran across a picture gallery yesterday on the stepmania site of a "build your own home pad" convention from back in 2005 which was using something similar to this... Except that instead of several 11x11 pieces of sheetmetal, they used one big 33x33 piece of sheetmetal across the whole top of the pad, and screwed down the sides. For a spacer, they used pieces of linoleum cut to shape (looked to be about 1.5" spacers... no instructions, just pictures), and the spacers went right to the edge of the board... I'm guessing they're relying on the sheetmetal staying flat, rather than trying to bow it up over the panels.
Couldn't tell you how well it worked, but they had about 10 or so people making them in the pictures, so I suppose someone must have tested it beforehand anyway =P
I'll try to find the picture gallery again...
EDIT: here it is - http://www.stepmania.com/viewfile.php?file=screens/Events/Czech%20Republic%202005%20-%20Pavel%20Workshop/
And here's one image that seems to best illustrate what they're doing:
[img]http://www.stepmania.com/screens/Events/Czech%20Republic%202005%20-%20Pavel%20Workshop/build%20your%20own%20dance%20pad%20(10).jpg[/img]
Also, regarding the post about cutting grooves for wires.... why not just feed them out the bottom and use one of those plastic tracks which are meant to protect wires? Most people who use bolts to hold the panels on will need a spacer on the bottom anyway for the feet, so there's room down there... and the pad will be far more secure than it would be if you cut grooves into the plywood.
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rlpowell
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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rlpowell
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| 178. Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Here it is. |
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It's so bad no-one even wants to say how bad it is? 
-Robin |
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pooface
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Joined: 27 Sep 2004
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| 179. Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Compared to the Riptide design, how much easier is this to build? And how much time does it take to make? I know the site says in about 6 hours, but can anyone attest to this?
I was building a Riptide mat and got about 80% done with it and realized that I got the measurements all wrong and that it was hopeless.
The design is far simpler but the thing that worries me about it is the use of epoxy. I've never dealt with it and it looks like something that if you screw up, you're hopeless.
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