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ChilliumBromide
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: Beaverton, OR |
80.  Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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I got bored of hearing the same thing repeated 20 times, so I didn't read everything, but I'd like to make a point: bashing on ITG doesn't make you cool. RoXoR was starting to get off the ground with in the groove; of course they didn't have as good of song selection. Konamix and DDR 1st Mix were pretty poopy too. And have any of you seen the stepcharts Konami poopy out these days? Stop kicking a dead horse; really, everyone loses here. Konami now has 0 competition, and thus very little reason to release another mix any time soon. Some might argue that PIU is competition, but I disagree; PIU is only fun if you're psychotic, new, or can freestyle. DDR was at its best with 5th mix and 6th mix Max, and has been declining since then, AKA since 11-footers. Now barrape is perfectly acceptable, stepcharts are just jumbles of arrows that don't even bother to really follow the beat, tempos are doubled to make everything look like it could be fun, stops are thrown in every time there's not a disgusting amount of sound going on, and the Standard charts are all pieces of poopy.
DDR's reached a point where it can't get harder without becoming stupid, because 4-panel dancing can only go so far.
THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION:
Konami should release the 4-panel dance game idea as an openly produceable game, and charge royalties. Konami doesn't care enough to focus on just DDR, so it'll never reach its full potential at their hands. However, there are people and groups that do.
Please note that this has nothing to do with the above rant.
THE COOL CONCLUSION:
PoleDance Revolution.
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cfusionpm
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA |
| 81. Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingTofu wrote: | | I got bored of hearing the same thing repeated 20 times, so I didn't read everything, but I'd like to make a point: bashing on ITG doesn't make you cool. |
neither does bashing on konami or ddr. OH SNAP!
| Quote: | | RoXoR was starting to get off the ground with in the groove; |
"getting off the ground" by illegally using konami's pattented cabinets, and FORCING the use of these cabinets in order to play their game. thats a problem REGARDLESS of the rip-offness.
| Quote: | | of course they didn't have as good of song selection. Konamix and DDR 1st Mix were pretty poopy too. |
obviously roxor didnt have half a decade of research and development to steal from. i mean, what they were doing was building something completely from the ground up; totally from scratch.
| Quote: | | And have any of you seen the stepcharts Konami poopy out these days? |
yes, and they're not that bad; unless of course all you want is stupid fast 16th note runs. the doubles charts are quite excellent.
| Quote: | | Stop kicking a dead horse; really, everyone loses here. |
does that hold the same for you, too?
| Quote: | | Konami now has 0 competition, and thus very little reason to release another mix any time soon. |
says the konami PR representative.
| Quote: | | Some might argue that PIU is competition, but I disagree; PIU is only fun if you're psychotic, new, or can freestyle. |
actually I disagree. i find pump to be VERY fun, and i fit none of those catagories. theres a pump (zero?) near me, but not near anywhere else i regularly go, and its in busy downtown, so i dont go there pretty much at all. i did find the game personally very fun. pumps lack of success seems to be limited to the US, though, because ive met more than a few people from latin american countries where pump is far more popular than ddr.
| Quote: | | DDR was at its best with 5th mix and 6th mix Max, and has been declining since then, AKA since 11-footers. |
while i still believe 5th mix was good, in retrospect, 4th plus was a better overall, and extreme was an amazing mix.
| Quote: | | Now barrape is perfectly acceptable, stepcharts are just jumbles of arrows that don't even bother to really follow the beat, tempos are doubled to make everything look like it could be fun, stops are thrown in every time there's not a disgusting amount of sound going on, and the Standard charts are all pieces of poopy. |
blame roxor, ITG, and hardcore ITG players for that.
| Quote: | | DDR's reached a point where it can't get harder without becoming stupid, because 4-panel dancing can only go so far. |
agreed. play more double.
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Loogaroo
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Location: Glendale, CA |
| 82. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| cfusionpm wrote: | | Quote: | | Konami now has 0 competition, and thus very little reason to release another mix any time soon. |
says the konami PR representative. |
How long was Extreme out before Konami made SuperNova? 3 1/2 years? And one could very easily argue that the only reason SuperNova even came out was to give Konami leverage in the court case; everyone thought they were done with arcade mixes until SN came out of nowhere.
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cfusionpm
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA |
| 83. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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edit: ah, nm. didnt see you were referring to arcade-only. regardless, i dont think anyone who doesnt work for konami will ever get the real answer as to why supernova was released so late, or even at all.
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Edible Bondage Tape
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Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Location: Kerri |
| 84. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| I Palindrome I wrote: | | cfusionpm wrote: | | Quote: | | Konami now has 0 competition, and thus very little reason to release another mix any time soon. |
says the konami PR representative. |
How long was Extreme out before Konami made SuperNova? 3 1/2 years? And one could very easily argue that the only reason SuperNova even came out was to give Konami leverage in the court case; everyone thought they were done with arcade mixes until SN came out of nowhere. |
ok now this is the last time ikm gonna do this so im gonna be very obnoxious with it becasue im hopeing to actualye enlighten afew people and im NOT aiming the large red letters at any one person its just a general fault of knowledge peopl eneed to know
KONAMI RELEASED AN ARCADE MIX BETWEEN SUPERNOVA AND EXTREME PLEASE GET YOUR HISTORY RIGHT
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valius
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Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Location: Hayward, CA |
| 85. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| cfusionpm wrote: | | Quote: | | Konami now has 0 competition, and thus very little reason to release another mix any time soon. |
says the konami PR representative.
| Quote: | | Some might argue that PIU is competition, but I disagree; PIU is only fun if you're psychotic, new, or can freestyle. |
actually I disagree. i find pump to be VERY fun, and i fit none of those catagories. theres a pump (zero?) near me, but not near anywhere else i regularly go, and its in busy downtown, so i dont go there pretty much at all. i did find the game personally very fun. pumps lack of success seems to be limited to the US, though, because ive met more than a few people from latin american countries where pump is far more popular than ddr. |
PIU is strongest in Latin America, with some of the strongest players in the world being from Mexico, Brazil, etc. It's also gaining ground in East and Southeast Asia with a Malaysian, Indonesian, Taiwanese, and Chinese team in addition to the obviously very strong South Korean team. If it's a comfort, the US Nationals was a larger event than the UK Nationals, and with dedicated PIU Supporters such as Smidget and Arturo, PIU will probably do better in the US later (interestingly North Carolina and Florida are home to the best US players).
Although I'm dismayed that PIU is being conveniently ignored by many people (not including person who posted above me about PIU as well as some others in the thread), I can't blame people for not looking outside of the 4-panel world, considering how its what everyone in the USA really "grew up with".
Still looking with interest at a future Andamiro/Roxor collaboration. 
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Loogaroo
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Location: Glendale, CA |
| 86. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Exclusive Bonus Track wrote: | | KONAMI RELEASED AN ARCADE MIX BETWEEN SUPERNOVA AND EXTREME |
Apologies to our European brethren, but nobody outside of Europe ever got to play Dancing Stage Fusion.
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Kitten Nuggets
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Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Location: San Diego |
| 87. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| I Palindrome I wrote: | | Apologies to our European brethren, but nobody outside of Europe ever got to play Dancing Stage Fusion. |
We weren't supposed to get DDR:EX, or Max2, or Max, etc.
Nonetheless, Konami still released it even though they had machines there already, and were dominating the market (since there was no competition) just as they were here with Extreme. Yet they released a new mix anyways.
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eVILPeeR
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Joined: 04 Sep 2005
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| 88. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Okay..
About the cabinet infringement.
First of all, when an arcade purchases a game, they do not sign a contract or any kind of lease. They make a purchase, meaning they own the game themselves.
Now, as for the upgrade kits, it is completely up to the arcade owner to install them into THEIR machine. THAT machine is NOT owned by Konami, so the arcade owner may feel free to do what he wishes with it (to a degree, but you understand the main point).
Advertising the upgrade kits on the other hand, is a different story. This is where Konami said "Unfair competition".
Moving along from that, regarding the case, it's very doubtful that Konami will continue In The Groove. They've only been trying to rid of it, and Konami looks at RoXoR as a company with an idea. Nothing more. They don't honestly care for In The Groove or its fanbase, which was even more apparent in Supernova. (According to resources, the only input that Konami accepted was from the Japanese players, NOT the Americans)
~Jeff |
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grumbles
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Joined: 03 Oct 2005
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| 89. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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^^ I can't help but agree w/this.
We can't even get a decent amount of speed mods, perspective mods, or at the very least doubles premium with a release.
I love when it's suggested we should all play doubles because doubles is awesome, but those of us who have real jobs, and have to pay for our own games, don't appreciate paying $2 for 3 songs, or spending $20 a week at the arcade. Sorry kids. |
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 90. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| grumbles wrote: | ^^ I can't help but agree w/this.
We can't even get a decent amount of speed mods, perspective mods, or at the very least doubles premium with a release.
I love when it's suggested we should all play doubles because doubles is awesome, but those of us who have real jobs, and have to pay for our own games, don't appreciate paying $2 for 3 songs, or spending $20 a week at the arcade. Sorry kids. |
Whine whine whine.
I've only seen a machine with Joint Premium on once. It promptly got turned off later when the manager of the arcade found out.
I still paid for (and enjoyed) my doubles all the same. Real job, responsibilities, etc.
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Mostly_Harmless
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Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Location: Cranford New Jersey |
| 91. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Yea I think It's about time we moved on and just accept the fact konami isn't go to keep the itg series going because there as5 holes anyway. We need to find all our depressed fellow ITG loyalists and bring them to the nearest pump machine. I mean I grew up on ITG it was my first dance game i ever played and pump it up is just that much better. if ITG players are looking for a challenge without the steps being "retarded" (DDR) then they need to go play pump because so much work is done in the steps and music. Now that ITG is gone forever I really hope pump it up will be getting some new hardcore itg players, remembner andamiro supported roxor by making there cabs lets support them back and who knows maybe roxor and andamiro will team up togather that would be sweet!  PUMP FU CKING OWNS DDR! |
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DancingMewtwo
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Joined: 01 Oct 2002
Location: West Mifflin, PA, USA |
| 92. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | We can't even get a decent amount of speed mods, perspective mods, or at the very least doubles premium with a release.
I love when it's suggested we should all play doubles because doubles is awesome, but those of us who have real jobs, and have to pay for our own games, don't appreciate paying $2 for 3 songs, or spending $20 a week at the arcade. Sorry kids. |
| Quote: | | I've only seen a machine with Joint Premium on once. It promptly got turned off later when the manager of the arcade found out. |
Then your arcade customers/staff didn't do a good enough job of hiding it from the manager.
I work at an arcade where the Joint Premium has been on for the last year, and the owner still doesn't know. Even the guy's nephew knows, who is the #2 in command for running all of the guy's arcades. The important thing is that everyone has agreed to keep it from him. No one starts a game of DDR while the owner is in the arcade and is less than 15 feet away from the machine...or if they absolutely have to, they hit the buttons very quickly so "No charge to join in!" never gets a chance to sound off.
The machine still makes pretty much the same money as it was making before, because (A) there's a Max2 on the other side of the mall set on 50c per player, so 75c JP was necessary to compete, (B) the newbies who don't figure out it's on JP still put in 75c each and the person working in the arcade at the time just takes the free game (we all play DDR), and most importantly, (C) the regular players still bring and spend the same amount of money; it just lasts twice as long.
grumbles: If you want Joint Premium on so bad, and have no way of tricking any of the techs into turning it on, then talk to the owner and see if there are things you can do that would get him to put it on willingly, such as:
*Advertising on various forums, etc. to come to that arcade because your machine has JP
*Seeing if he'd do a 2 to 4 week test with the machine on JP, and comparing the money the machine takes in to see if it really would lose out on that much
*Start up tournaments that have ($x entry fee + you pay for your own games, higher seeded person pays a quarter, lower seeded person pays 50 cents) and have the arcade take a percentage of the entry fees as well
Granted, it's easiest if you can just find someone to service the machine that doesn't know what JP is and then tell them to put it on and hope they don't ask, but there ARE other ways to get that JP on you want so badly.
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 93. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| DancingMewtwo wrote: | | Cutriss wrote: | | I've only seen a machine with Joint Premium on once. It promptly got turned off later when the manager of the arcade found out. |
Then your arcade customers/staff didn't do a good enough job of hiding it from the manager. |
Kinda hard to do when the manager cares, and actually plays some of his games.
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noisuf0
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Joined: 25 Apr 2004
Location: South Florida |
| 94. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| valius wrote: | (interestingly North Carolina and Florida are home to the best US pump players).
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woot woot!!
| valius wrote: | | Still looking with interest at a future Andamiro/Roxor collaboration. |
me too. 
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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
| 95. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| DancingTofu wrote: | | And have any of you seen the stepcharts Konami poopy out these days? |
I like most of them, particularly the 9-foot Oni charts (like Xepher, DoLL, iFuturelist, Knock Out Regrets, etc.)
| DancingTofu wrote: | | Now barrape is perfectly acceptable |
How terrible. It's really something to be concerned about because this is a pressing ethical issue, not a useless argument about the "correct" way to play a video game.
| DancingTofu wrote: | | tempos are doubled to make everything look like it could be fun |
Nothing new. Max 300 and Drop Out?
| cfusionpm wrote: |
| Quote: | | Now barrape is perfectly acceptable, stepcharts are just jumbles of arrows that don't even bother to really follow the beat, tempos are doubled to make everything look like it could be fun, stops are thrown in every time there's not a disgusting amount of sound going on, and the Standard charts are all pieces of poopy. |
blame roxor, ITG, and hardcore ITG players for that. |
First, let's see who's to "blame" for bar-rape:
- Konami put bars on their DDR machines in the first place.
- Konami made Max 300, giving people a good reason to use the bar.
- It doesn't even matter, it's a piece of metal. But people have been using the bar since before ITG came out.
The tempo doubling has nothing to do with Roxor; it's something Konami did first (and it's not a big deal anyway).
DDR songs have had stops before ITG existed. ITG songs don't have a ton of stops, and certainly none with as many as Chaos.
Standard charts...whatever, I don't play Standard, but I doubt Roxor had any influence on DDR's Standard charts at all.
As for stepcharts just being jumbles of arrows...why blame that on Roxor? Even if you think that ITG 11s and up are just jumbles of arrows, why would this affect Konami? Haven't you been one of the people arguing that ITG is no more than a speck on Konami's radar?
The lousy new 10s are Konami's fault. Konami had a way of making 10s that worked, and they basically threw it out.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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cfusionpm
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA |
| 96. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: | First, let's see who's to "blame" for bar-rape:
- Konami put bars on their DDR machines in the first place. |
its funny, it says right in the operations manual for DDR Extreme (and im guessing others, but i havent personally seen), that the bar is for safety only, and something along the lines of "do not lean on the bar while playing." i wish i could post a picture i took of that manual; it would have been great here, but im on campus right now, and the pic is on my desktop at home.
though, in essence, the people to "blame" are those that care only about what score is shown, and getting that score by any means possible. most of these people who may have began on ddr, maybe using the bar for a few songs, then "graduated" to itg, where the bar is practically a requirement. but thats a whoooole 'nother can-o-worms
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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
| 97. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| cfusionpm wrote: | | AA Bob wrote: | First, let's see who's to "blame" for bar-rape:
- Konami put bars on their DDR machines in the first place. |
its funny, it says right in the operations manual for DDR Extreme (and im guessing others, but i havent personally seen), that the bar is for safety only, and something along the lines of "do not lean on the bar while playing." i wish i could post a picture i took of that manual; it would have been great here, but im on campus right now, and the pic is on my desktop at home. |
That seems like something they would put in so they wouldn't be liable for any injuries caused by the bar breaking or something. As somebody here once said, do you really think that the first time Konami saw someone using the bar to play, they said "wow, never thought of that before"?
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My Recall (home scores)
DDR/ITG videos
| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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TPF.Catch22
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Location: Euphoria |
| 98. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: | | As somebody here once said, do you really think that the first time Konami saw someone using the bar to play, they said "wow, never thought of that before"? |
Lol.
I find enjoyment out of the fact that some people are so bothered by the bar and its evil use.
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Liquid Zero
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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| 99. Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| DancingTofu wrote: | I got bored of hearing the same thing repeated 20 times, so I didn't read everything, but I'd like to make a point: bashing on ITG doesn't make you cool. RoXoR was starting to get off the ground with in the groove; of course they didn't have as good of song selection. Konamix and DDR 1st Mix were pretty poopy too. And have any of you seen the stepcharts Konami poopy out these days? Stop kicking a dead horse; really, everyone loses here. Konami now has 0 competition, and thus very little reason to release another mix any time soon. Some might argue that PIU is competition, but I disagree; PIU is only fun if you're psychotic, new, or can freestyle. DDR was at its best with 5th mix and 6th mix Max, and has been declining since then, AKA since 11-footers. Now barrape is perfectly acceptable, stepcharts are just jumbles of arrows that don't even bother to really follow the beat, tempos are doubled to make everything look like it could be fun, stops are thrown in every time there's not a disgusting amount of sound going on, and the Standard charts are all pieces of poopy.
DDR's reached a point where it can't get harder without becoming stupid, because 4-panel dancing can only go so far.
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Geez, you sound as if over half the new music are resolved to double tempos and multiple stops. Only a handful of them do that. In addition, this concept isn't anything new. A, Remember You, MAX 300, Drop Out, and beyond have all exploited tempo changes and stops. All SuperNOVA did was put a greater focus on them with a small sum of songs. And plenty of charts still go to an obvious beat. Songs like Seduction Vocal, Happy Angel, The Other Side, No.13 are ridiculously obvious in this area, and aren't anything close to being jumbles of arrows. Outside the realm of 10-footers, I've honestly hardly seen any significant difference in stepcharts for Arcade DDR since MAX1.
Anyway, I will agree that 10-footers in DDR have increasingly become more ridiculous, and home versions don't always deliver the best, but all the other points made seem way too embellished.
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Last edited by Liquid Zero on Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total |
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