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ColorOfSakura Trick Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Location: The user formerly known as Zajitarrius |
60. Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Synaesthesia wrote: | SingleA wrote: | Baka of the Orochi wrote: | Eh, each to their own. It took me a while to get used to the middle, but after a while, you figure it out. |
I have no problem with the 5-button layout compared to 4-button.
I just don't understand why anyone would play a game that doesn't color 8th notes differently than quarter notes. Sure, you can just put the scroll speed on 3x, but that's hardly a solution.
When PIU first came out, I wondered how they could have "forgotten" this. I was sure it would be fixed in Exceed 2. I've now decided that PIU just doesn't care. |
But like people have said, IIDX/Pop'n/PPP don't color notes by musical timing and those work out just fine. |
As a counterpoint - I refer you to my other post near the top of the page. _________________
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Baka of the Orochi Trick Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Chicago area |
61. Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Zajitarrius wrote: | SiKrAiKeN wrote: | zaphod wrote: | When the rythyyms are simple, or when they actually match the music ihave no problem stepping them. it's when they don't match anythig in particular, AND they are irregular then is wher yo uhave troubles. DDR is definitely known for making songs that you need to rely on vivid/solo to get the timing informationproperly for some of the arrows. If they do similar styles of steps in some songs in pump, that quickly becomes unfun, playing guess the beat. |
Games like Beatmania IIDX, Guitar Freaks, DrumMania, Pop'n Music, etc do not have notes color coded to the beat either. People still manage though, since it's just something you get used to. |
The major flaw with that idea is that hand-eye coordination is much more responsive and quick that "foot-eye" coordination is. Basically, you can fudge it using your hands and still do somewhat well whereas with your feet, if you're off - you're usually way off. |
...and?
That doesn't really mean anything, especially since you have people who're AAA'ing/95+% flashing 10 footers and above.
Even in games like IIDX and Guitar Freaks and DrumMania, people haven't come that close to getting 93%+ perfects on several given songs, in the world...hell people STRUGGLE to pass a lot of songs even now.
Foot-eye coordination can be built up like hand-eye can, and it CAN be done without the bar; Koreans and Mexicans have proven they could do absolutely ridiculous stuff (which Americans think is NUTS) without the bar.
Quote: | I just don't understand why anyone would play a game that doesn't color 8th notes differently than quarter notes. Sure, you can just put the scroll speed on 3x, but that's hardly a solution. |
Again, to reiterate several people's points...
DDR and ITG are the only music games to color their off beats.
...unless there's something I missed.
Pop 'n Music doesn't.
Beatmania I, IIDX, III doesn't.
Crackin' DJ doesn't.
EZ2DJ doesn't.
PPP doesn't.
Guitar Freaks doesn't.
DrumMania doesn't.
Dancemaniax doesn't.
Percussion Master doesn't.
Taiko Drum Master/Taiko No Tatsujin doesn't.
Tecnetix/Technic Beat doesn't.
Should I keep going? And note, that a lot of these games are popular, so much to the point that no one CARES about it.
Hell, DDR didn't even color their offbeat arrows until 3rd Mix (or Club Version, whichever you decide). And ITG is just simply patterned after DDR. _________________
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Vince Mestas Trick Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
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62. Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Zero just got me into Pump. Never thought about the game before I saw someone play it at the arcade. Zero is awsome. _________________
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Tsuri Trick Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
63. Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Baka of the Orochi wrote: | Zajitarrius wrote: | SiKrAiKeN wrote: | zaphod wrote: | When the rythyyms are simple, or when they actually match the music ihave no problem stepping them. it's when they don't match anythig in particular, AND they are irregular then is wher yo uhave troubles. DDR is definitely known for making songs that you need to rely on vivid/solo to get the timing informationproperly for some of the arrows. If they do similar styles of steps in some songs in pump, that quickly becomes unfun, playing guess the beat. |
Games like Beatmania IIDX, Guitar Freaks, DrumMania, Pop'n Music, etc do not have notes color coded to the beat either. People still manage though, since it's just something you get used to. |
The major flaw with that idea is that hand-eye coordination is much more responsive and quick that "foot-eye" coordination is. Basically, you can fudge it using your hands and still do somewhat well whereas with your feet, if you're off - you're usually way off. |
...and?
That doesn't really mean anything, especially since you have people who're AAA'ing/95+% flashing 10 footers and above.
Even in games like IIDX and Guitar Freaks and DrumMania, people haven't come that close to getting 93%+ perfects on several given songs, in the world...hell people STRUGGLE to pass a lot of songs even now.
Foot-eye coordination can be built up like hand-eye can, and it CAN be done without the bar; Koreans and Mexicans have proven they could do absolutely ridiculous stuff (which Americans think is NUTS) without the bar.
Quote: | I just don't understand why anyone would play a game that doesn't color 8th notes differently than quarter notes. Sure, you can just put the scroll speed on 3x, but that's hardly a solution. |
Again, to reiterate several people's points...
DDR and ITG are the only music games to color their off beats.
...unless there's something I missed.
Pop 'n Music doesn't.
Beatmania I, IIDX, III doesn't.
Crackin' DJ doesn't.
EZ2DJ doesn't.
PPP doesn't.
Guitar Freaks doesn't.
DrumMania doesn't.
Dancemaniax doesn't.
Percussion Master doesn't.
Taiko Drum Master/Taiko No Tatsujin doesn't.
Tecnetix/Technic Beat doesn't.
Should I keep going? And note, that a lot of these games are popular, so much to the point that no one CARES about it.
Hell, DDR didn't even color their offbeat arrows until 3rd Mix (or Club Version, whichever you decide). And ITG is just simply patterned after DDR. |
I would like to tack on to that :
I can read and pass 99% of the songs on PIU on 1X.... the only real problems in terms of being difficult to read are Dignity on Nightmare, Canon-D on Nightmare, Walkie Talkie Man on Nightmare, and Swing Baby on Crazy... thats it... unless your playing one of those you have no right to doggy about 1X on PIU
I personally find DDR 1X to be annoying with the flashing colors that conflict with the background videos.. in fact I'd prefer it if they didn't flash and cycle colors... too bad even on flat the colors still cycle through white and tan so it's still just as annoying.
I've played Pop n Music, IIDX, and other games before that don't have vivid notes and using your hands instead of your feet doesn't effect the fact that the color coding is just easier to get used to and SEE...
And I think it is neccessary for me to post this...
HOW TO PROPERLY READ 1X WHILE PLAYING PUMP IT UP :
arrows in the background come first, arrows in the foreground come next... it's easy to seperate with your eyes the brackets in which each arrow fits.... it is easy to see which arrows come first, second, third, fourth and so on before it even hits the indicator by just looking at if it's in the foreground or background... thats it... you can't read like that on DDR because of the conflicting colors and what not... unless your playing a DDR Solo with REAL Solo arrows... |
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Syncopation Trick Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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64. Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:09 am Post subject: |
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Keep in mind that a lot of those games that don't use "vivid" arrow color schemes *do* use gridlines and/or measure barlines to assist in judging the spacing.
Now, it may still be hard to judge triplet spacing; however, it is still relatively straightforward to judge quarter, eighth, sixteenth, and--in some cases--32nd notes. So, the difficulty becomes seeing all the columns all at once and hitting the notes correctly, but for any single column, the interface still makes some effort to denote a time value even without using colored noteskins.
In contrast, I still find Pump It Up at 1x is cramped, cluttered, and in some cases (Exceed and beyond) the overlapping of the same steps makes it hard to distinguish between two or more notes and a long arrow. Speed of x2 or x3 eliminates the usability issue with the interface altogether. As long as speed mods remain in Pump It Up, I'll use them. If they ever remove speed mods, I'll stop playing Pump It Up.
Also, it's not just Pump It Up. Same goes for DDR, 1.5x or 2x for me, Solo arrows when available in a given mix. I didn't even bother with songs such as Orion 78 until the later mixes because I wasn't going to waste money trying to figure out cluttered arrows.
Rationale: a "fair" challenge in the game is making the rhythms hard to do in time (due to irregular rhythms, song tempo, and so on), but also making them fully readable with an interface that doesn't break down using excessive overlapping. Otherwise, I won't waste my money trying to read clutter just for the sake of obscuring otherwise straightforward rhythm patterns (which is one of the reasons I won't purchase any game that doesn't use vivid noteskins or gridlines to denote rhythms). |
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.hack//*cough* Trick Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Location: H-Town, TX, USA, Planet Earth, 3rd Rock from the Sun |
65. Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the D&B's in Houston, TX, has now upgraded to Zero, and I played it over the weekend.
Finally, Andamiro gets it right as far as telling you how to select songs, how to pick, how to speed mod, etc. And the new Easy Station has a tutorial for all the n00bs out there who've never played Pump. Not to mention most of the Easy Station charts are ridiculously easy.
As for Arcade, FINALLY if you're playing with someone else, you can each play on different difficulties. One of my BIGGEST gripes with Pump has finally been corrected. Why it took Andamiro 10-something odd mixes to figure that out is beyond me, but it's all good now.
Only thing I didn't like: it's too easy to change difficulties in Pump (press the up-left arrow once to cycle through difficulties; up-right changes the song channel, much like Exceed 1&2). Especially if you speed mod. It's too easy to pick the wrong song on the wrong difficulty. I accidentally speed modded to 3X, then picked a song, and instead of playing the K-pop song I wanted on Crazy, I wound up playing a Pop channel song on Freestyle. Which is why I'd prefer Pump to have a Modifier Options Menu instead of foot-codes. My advice to Zero players is to speed mod first, then pick your song and difficulty.
Other than that, I was VERY impressed with the songlist. All the new K-pop songs are really good (All Famy's the only one that didn't do anything for me), the Chinese Pop song Up Up is catchy, and the new Banya songs are awesome (Jump on Crazy is one of the most FUN stepcharts I've seen so far; finally, a nice easy Banya song!). I don't like that Ignition Starts and Hypnosis were removed from the songlist, though; those two are my favorite warm-up songs.
Overall, I <3 <3 <3 Zero. Easily the best Pump arcade mix by far. _________________
"It's not God who created humans. It's humans who create God." - Cowboy Bebop Ep. 24 (Brain Scratch)
Atkins is dead. Long live exercise and dance games. |
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Dawgbowl Trick Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Location: Frederick,MD |
66. Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Pretty much all D&Bs have it now, arundal mills and white flint in maryland both have it.
Things I hate:
They changed the steps to rolling Xmas to some really retarded stepchart that is so boring. Those steps used to be my absolute favorite steps to play daily... now I can't stand them.
Thats really the only thing that got me swearing at the machine
Things I like:
Everything else... The new tracks are for the most part nice except the difficulties are nasty, and super uber slowdowns what? (moonlight)
I didn't play any of them, but Po did... stupid stupid stupid...
But how dare they change those steps to rolling christmas... god they didn't leave them... h8...h8....h8..... _________________
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Razma Vivid Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Springs, CO |
67. Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I truely hate (and yet the same time, love) songs that make you do the splits.... Chinese Resturant...
Beat of the War 2 is hard, LiaDZ2 is stupid hard, and Try to BPM is just retarded. In all, though, the game is magnificant.
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Honda Z
Last edited by Razma on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Synaesthesia Trick Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Location: Crushing all deceivers, smashing non-believers |
68. Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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I was amused that LiaDZ is a 7 on Normal (which is just about my current limit at PIU; best I've done is BotW2 Hard). It's definitely an awesome game. Considering the condition of my hometown arcade's DDArgh pads, even if they upgraded to ITG2, I would probably have to play more Zero. _________________
im a lasagna whale
G_G |
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Robert H. Magnusson Trick Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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69. Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Dave & Busters St. Louis (technically, Earth City, near where I work, as well as near the Riverport Ampitheater) has finally upgraded to Pump Zero as well. Very nice; I actually did fairly well with some of the easier, more familiar songs. (For me, playing's a little like DDR Solo.) I only had time to play one set (three easy songs and the bonus - all A's, rank 28 on that machine. Not many people at D&B are that familiar with dance games yet) before my bus came, so hopefully later I'll have time to challenge myself properly. _________________
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ddrHorse Trick Member
Joined: 28 Mar 2002 Location: Rockford, IL |
70. Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure why, but Rock Valley Community College near Rockford, IL has one of these. The game room there consists of a pinball machine, a pool table, another old arcade machine, and PIU Zero. The machine is only 25 cents and the volume is at a decent level. The pads were working mostly last time I was there, but I've been told they are at least trying to fix the problems with them. While it is 25 cents, I'd say most people who frequent this board would be better off going to Dennis' in Chicago. However, if you're a Rockford local, this machine might be something you'd like to support. |
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Agent J Trick Member
Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Location: Dimension X |
71. Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Dawg-Badguy wrote: | Pretty much all D&Bs have it now, arundal mills and white flint in maryland both have it.
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Indeed. I don't know when it happened, but the D&B near me in Addison, Illinois has it, too. Just played it for the first time on Wednesday and I'm quite impressed. As .hack//*cough* mentioned, there's finally an explanation of the interface, and it's quite intuitive in my opinion as well. I think the new interface with the BGA preview looks really slick,too. The songlist is very nice. I haven't explored it fully, but I didn't notice any of my favorites missing so far. LiaDZ2 completely OWNED me, though. I'm at about the same level as Synaesthesia on PIU (my best so far is Turkey March Hard. >_<), and that song is way harder than 7. Ah well, just need to practice. |
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Razma Vivid Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Springs, CO |
72. Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Super Katamario wrote: | (my best so far is Turkey March Hard. >_<), and that song is way harder than 7. Ah well, just need to practice. |
Gallops, my friend.
Interesting note... the freeze arrows are fixed in Zero. LiaDZ CZ is now passable without too much extra effort than before. In Exceed 2 (what I'm used to playing) the freezes seemed to be held out an extra 8th note, but they are fixed in Zero.
Also, looking at the chart, the new steps for Turbo remix are stupid. The old steps are better.
_________________
grape ape pics
Last edited by Razma on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total |
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Baka of the Orochi Trick Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Chicago area |
73. Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Super Katamario wrote: | Dawg-Badguy wrote: | Pretty much all D&Bs have it now, arundal mills and white flint in maryland both have it.
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Indeed. I don't know when it happened, but the D&B near me in Addison, Illinois has it, too. Just played it for the first time on Wednesday and I'm quite impressed. As .hack//*cough* mentioned, there's finally an explanation of the interface, and it's quite intuitive in my opinion as well. I think the new interface with the BGA preview looks really slick,too. The songlist is very nice. I haven't explored it fully, but I didn't notice any of my favorites missing so far. LiaDZ2 completely OWNED me, though. I'm at about the same level as Synaesthesia on PIU (my best so far is Turkey March Hard. >_<), and that song is way harder than 7. Ah well, just need to practice. |
What? Another Addison player?
DAMMIT PEOPLE when the hell do you play? I can't EVER find players in Addison.
I'm probably going back tonight, friend's working. See if I can gank some more credits =) _________________
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DARREN HAYEZ Trick Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Location: Michigan |
74. Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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I played it today...and was very angry with it. I went to Dave & Busters in Philly and they had it. Anyway, I'm used to the four arrow setup, and I've never been able to get used to the five button thing on PIU! I liked the music, but I was terrible at the game itself. The pads seemed VERY unresponsive. You literally had to stomp on them (as it says on the sensors) to get them to react, which doesn't work well when you're trying to flail around and hit all the sensors in quick songs. And since the card reader screen was broken, I didn't know how many chips it was, and I think I spent more than half failing on that damn game. However, I can see how PIU! would be better for freestyling. I was sliding around on the pad a bit to get a feel for it and I could totally see myself freestyling on it if I was a more experienced player. I long for the arcade back home and nice round of DDRExtreme. |
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Synaesthesia Trick Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Location: Crushing all deceivers, smashing non-believers |
75. Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen more people use Freestyle mode at my home arcade than the other modes. But that's just me. Oh, how I long to play PIU more... _________________
im a lasagna whale
G_G |
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Agent J Trick Member
Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Location: Dimension X |
76. Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Baka of the Orochi wrote: |
What? Another Addison player?
DAMMIT PEOPLE when the hell do you play? I can't EVER find players in Addison.
I'm probably going back tonight, friend's working. See if I can gank some more credits =) |
I personally play at odd times, like weekday afternoons, when I have some free time before I have to do homework or go to work. If it makes you feel any better, I've never seen anyone else play at Addison either. The machine's completely deserted every time I'm there. |
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Baka of the Orochi Trick Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Chicago area |
77. Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Super Katamario wrote: | Baka of the Orochi wrote: |
What? Another Addison player?
DAMMIT PEOPLE when the hell do you play? I can't EVER find players in Addison.
I'm probably going back tonight, friend's working. See if I can gank some more credits =) |
I personally play at odd times, like weekday afternoons, when I have some free time before I have to do homework or go to work. If it makes you feel any better, I've never seen anyone else play at Addison either. The machine's completely deserted every time I'm there. |
I'm usually there Friday or Saturday nights, usually around 7 or 8 ish, sometimes like 9 (before the cover charge).
I want to try to nab the power hour again, but I keep getting out of work too late =/ _________________
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[KIMO]Wolfen Trick Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Location: Flossmoor, IL |
78. Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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How are the pads up there in Addison?
I'm getting a bit sick of the people and the management of OFW... so I need a GOOD place to play Pump
If it's good. Don't be surprized to find me there with Bee one day. |
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Baka of the Orochi Trick Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Chicago area |
79. Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Better than Gold Coast, OFW, and Dennis' pads. Easily. _________________
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