My home built metal DDR pad (Part IV)

fid · Basic Member Joined: 18 Feb 2006

I think you guys are making far too big a deal about the latency at this point. It very well could be that it's too much. However, it also might not be as noticeable as you think.

The only way you are going to know if it's a problem for you personally is if you build one yourself. I don't notice it at all, myself.

I'll throw up pictures and schmatics of the pad I built if anyone's interested when I get some time.

marcan's right, you can implement these touch sensors in a microcontroller, and if you're using one anyways, it's a way to reduce the component count. I thought about this (briefly) when I considered making my pad USB. But, these qprox ones are working pretty reliably for me, and alledgedly they'll work through 4" of dielectric.

It's also a very cheap way to build a pad. Cost me about $10 in parts to build my pad.

Matrlx, I would imagine that the delay from a mechanical switch would be less, but I still contend that there are delays (not necessarily due to the switch). I don't think the delay in the touch pad is really as bad as you think it'll be.

Also, I believe it's not that it can respond every 30ms, but that it can respond 30ms after the touch is applied. Plus, according to geckoinc99, you can get that delay down to 10ms.

As for shoes, I haven't tried them since the latest round of tweaking, so I don't know how well they'll work.

geckoinc99 · Trick Member Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Location: Chattanooga, TN

Hey group!

Looks like someone posted a question about these already. Here's the link:

http://www.qprox.com/forum/read.php?f=1&i=1909&t=1909#reply_1909

The main points of the listing basically say that there are a lot of things that would fight against the design, especially with the metal squares surrounding the plexiglass. This design route definitely will have some challenges, but if it can be done, it would really make for a nice contact system. If I can find a reason to get other things from Digikey, I may order a few and experiment with it.

For those that would also like to look at other circuits that use standard components (instead of a one chip design), here's a website that lists several examples:

http://www.discovercircuits.com/C/capacitance-sw.htm

David
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circusfreak · Basic Member Joined: 23 Feb 2006

Hi all,
I have been following this thread for a while and read about half of it. It seems the search does not return everything I want, so I'll ask a couple questions if you don't mind. I just got into DDR after playing some at the neighbors house and am now building a hard pad. I am using info from Gecko, Riptide, and Stoli's designs. (Thanks guys for the great writeups). Anyways, I am going to use the pad for the PC and maybe PS2.

1. Has anyone here used the RedOctane Afterburner control box for their homebrew pad? If so, do you know if there is a pin diagram inside it for the 9-pin connector. If you have used it, how did it turn out for you? Looks to me like the easiest way to connect instead of hacking a controller and using a PS2->USB converter. At $25 its pretty reasonable.

2. Can y'all post some of your favorite arrow graphics here again? Most of the links I found through the FAQ are dead and I have seen some cool ones in some of the pics of your pads.

3. Where are people at with adding lights? I would like to maybe add some LEDs down the road and I saw a few pics with them installed in home pads, but no writeups.

Thanks for all the great info here, and keep up the good work folks. I love the DIY culture.

-Rob

statikeffeck · Basic Member Joined: 02 May 2003 Location: Neptune, NJ

What is the general consensus on skipping the sheet metal on home built hard pads?
For example, see this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6081650798715581201

Seems like a solid, perfectly working pad, except your feet contact only wood, not metal or plexiglass.
I imagine that after much heavy use the wood will start to wear down and possibly leave wood shavings & dust around the area of use.
But it would be nice to skip the sheet metal bending process.
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geckoinc99 · Trick Member Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Location: Chattanooga, TN

Thanks circusfreak! Though I don't really belong in the good writeup compliments, at least not yet. I'm still not set on a pad design. Small tweaks still being done, but once I get a final version I like I'll write up a good review on building one. At any rate, I'm more than happy to answer any questions about mine.

I would have had the lights done now except that I fell upon hard times financially (as has everyone I imagine). However, I'm confident that I have a working design. If I get any extra time I can test the design, but I trust Marcan's work. There's been lots of information on it if you look back over the past 10-20 pages (I don't remember exactly where). However, the main points for lights were:

1. LEDs would be the easiest and cheapest. It just takes a few to get enough usable light (at least 4) and helps to put some reflective material on the bottom of the arrow well. Aluminum flashing, foil, sheetmetal, etc... will work.
2. It is a better idea to run the lights off of its own power supply. The controllers just don't provide enough voltage or current without running risk of blowing a fuse. You will see red LEDs a lot on controllers because they have the lowest voltage drop and can get away with it. However, if you want blue or white, then you have a different beast. Even with the Red, you still run the risk of blowing that fuse. A wall adapter is cheap and easy.
3. A good place to get parts from is http://www.jameco.com. I've ordered from them many times. Another place that's good for cheap LEDs in bulk is http://www.batteryspace.com/. I have ordered from them and they are reliable if you're worried about that.
4. If you search back you should find the link to the page for the circuit that marcan designed. It uses a transistor to switch the LEDs on and off (well, technically the arrow pad turns the LEDs on and off and the transistor signals the controller). I would find the page for you, but the search isn't working for me right now (who knows).

Anyway, that should give you a start. I'm not familiar with the Afterburner control box, so I can't help you there. As for arrow graphics, I only have one that is based on the arcade. Unfortunately, I only have Geocities to host it at, so here it is:
http://www.geocities.com/geckoinc99/bluefinal.gif
It's not that big of a file, so you shouldn't have trouble downloading it. Good luck with the build.
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geckoinc99 · Trick Member Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Location: Chattanooga, TN

statikeffeck,
You posted while I was posting! Anyway, there really wouldn't be anything wrong with a wooden pad like that. If you're worried about the wood wearing down, you can always put a polyurethane on it. What the sheet metal can do is give a better sliding surface which some prefer to have. I haven't put anything on my metal to slick it up yet, but in the couple of arcades I've played in you can tell that it's a bit slippery on the metal. If you prefer to have grip, then by all means, go the wooden route. You could still do the wood squares with the plexiglass arrows as well. I would probably put a coat or two of polyurethane on the wood though, for protection and to smooth the surface out some (plus get that oh so nice shine). It's really up to you. There have been many versions of pads. Yours doesn't have to be like the arcade if you're not concerned with matching the feel of the arcade. Since I don't have one in my town, it didn't matter as much to me, which is why I skipped the corner brackets. Just my thought.

David
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Life is very different 3000 feet above the earth with only a wing to hold you up....
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slvrshdw · Trick Member Joined: 05 Jan 2005

yeah i think ill get a vid of me/my friends playing on my pad and my friends tx?000 pad that i need to fix still...
ill get one up hopefully this weekend

anyway, yeah the sheet metal/flashing that cover the 5 panels are just for looks
some one (cant rmr who) made a pad and used varnish i think it was so it still was a slick surface, and saved some money (it looked really cool too, not the "classic" arcade tho)

anyway, ya, its just a preference, like the um, corner braces, i have them on mine, but my bro didnt want them, so his doesnt
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HitokiriX · Trick Member Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Location: Berwyn, PA

Just to be sure, Gecko your lighting design was made to work with the amount of space provided in riptide's pad design right? So a design such as stoli's without much internal space wouldn't work with this lighting design, right?

statikeffeck · Basic Member Joined: 02 May 2003 Location: Neptune, NJ

I've added a section for Homebrew Pads to the Wikipedia entry for Dance pad. Please feel free to change it as necessary. Also, if someone has a good picture of a homebrew pad, please upload it (and grant permission to use it).
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marcan · Trick Member Joined: 28 Jul 2005

I added mention of the several modified sensor projects. Also, you do not have to make links such as [[lexan|Lexan]]. Wikipedia ignores case. Also, [[Do-it-yourself|do-it-yourselfers]] can be written as [[do-it-yourself]]ers with the same effect (wikipedia is intelligent enough for these things to work).

About not using sheet metal, my pad is exactly like that. Just get some good wood with some kind of formica top side, and it should work well.

psisarah · Trick Member Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Location: Toronto

circusfreak · Basic Member Joined: 23 Feb 2006

psisar,
Yah, please post your graphics. They look slick and I'd like to use them. Thanks!

psisarah · Trick Member Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Location: Toronto

Click on images for 11x11 version.

Enjoy!
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geckoinc99 · Trick Member Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Location: Chattanooga, TN

HitokiriX,
Yes, my pad is designed like Riptides. However, my base is a 3/4" plywood piece that I cut out holes for the arrow wells, then attached a thinner piece of wood to the bottom. This gives me a well to shine light into and allow to spread out better for lighting the arrow. Since Stoli's pad is designed like DDRHomePad, there's no space left for lights. If you wanted lights, you would have to use Riptide's contact system
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Life is very different 3000 feet above the earth with only a wing to hold you up....
Can't wait to be there again. Wanna join me? Visit http://www.hanglide.com

geckoinc99 · Trick Member Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Location: Chattanooga, TN

HitokiriX,
Yes, my pad is designed like Riptides. However, my base is a 3/4" plywood piece that I cut out holes for the arrow wells, then attached a thinner piece of wood to the bottom. This gives me a well to shine light into and allow to spread out better for lighting the arrow. Since Stoli's pad is designed like DDRHomePad, there's no space left for lights. If you wanted lights, you would have to use Riptide's contact system while using Stoli's screw-in design. It wouldn't leave much room, but it would be a little bit. Not easy, but possible.

David
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Life is very different 3000 feet above the earth with only a wing to hold you up....
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The_Sina · Basic Member Joined: 04 Mar 2006

I finally finished my pad. Pics to it are at http://www.sinadee.com/ddrpad . Special thx to Stoli again for his design.

DeViLSPeT · Basic Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006

hey guys

i made a pad based on riptides design

the only problem is that as soon as i press two buttons together i get a message sayin plz connect controller....

yes i use a ps2 controller but riptide stoli etc have also used a joystick n it seems to work 4 them

ne hlp will be appreciated

thanx

geckoinc99 · Trick Member Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Location: Chattanooga, TN

Devilspet,
There are a couple of things to check:

1. Make sure all wiring is connected right. A multimeter with a diode function really helps here. It usually gives an audible tone if a connection is made between the two probes. You can quickly check for crossed connections or misswired components. If you don't have access to one, make sure that all the wires go where they should.

2. Some controllers won't work for DDR. Usually, the biggest problem is that you can't do Left-Right or Up-Down combos (because this would otherwise be impossible on a normal controller). It's possible that when you make these combinations, the controller "freaks out" and throws an error message, causing the one you are experiencing. The only way to combat this is to get a controller that works. Either use one of the ones that others have suggested or get a board from a softpad.

If I ever get the time, I may look into designing PS2 boards. The ones from the softpads looked very simple and could probably be built with little effort. However, I still want to explore the capacitance idea as well. Oh well...

Anyway, good luck with the troubleshooting. Those are the only ideas I have for you with the information available.

David
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Life is very different 3000 feet above the earth with only a wing to hold you up....
Can't wait to be there again. Wanna join me? Visit http://www.hanglide.com

waltzin · Basic Member Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Location: New Zealand

does anyone know what kind of xbox controllers work with ddr? If any?

This is my dancemat so far.. still gotta do the wiring cause my microsoft controller wouldn't work properly. I've ordered a softmat from lik-sang cause i couldn't find a single one in New Zealand

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I used MiG-53's Arrow Pics, so credit goes to him for that, though i dont think hes around these forums anymore. And of course thanks to ddrhomepad and stoli for the great tutorials.

DeViLSPeT · Basic Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006