I know I'm a year late with this, but I was thinking....

cfusionpm · Trick Member Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Location: San Diego, CA

the whole ddr vs itg debate that always comes up; theres always a group of people that say that itg is the exact same thing as ddr, and others say that its totally different. i remember someone saying something along the lines of "saying ddr is the same as itg is equivalent to saying sonic and mario are the same, because they're both platformers." i thought of a better analogy that i hope makes sense. the way i see it is that its like comparing a game and a sequel 2 or 3 generations later. i'm a big racing game fan, so im going to use that. take say the original need for speed. now compare that to need for speed 3. (where ddr = nfs and itg = nfs3) 3 has better-looking graphics, slightly tweaked bits here and there, new cars and courses, new features like police chases, but it essentially still plays and feels the same. i say they are the same because there are no large fundamental differences in how its played. now, you compare a need for speed game to say, gran turismo (consider it piu for this point) and you have a decently sized difference in how its played, rooted in entirely different physics engines and playstyle.

itg looks, feels, and generally plays more like ddr than it doesnt. i do not see these as "two completely different four-panel, up/down/left/right dance simulation games" i see it as "a home-made ddr âsequelâ with lots of new experimental features." i dont understand how it could be considered as anything else. the whole point of the game was to capitalize on ddr and translate ddr skills directly to itg where they could be expanded further. its not like playing an arcade racer like need for speed will really help you with a simulation racer like gran turismo. but playing an older nfs game will certainly help you in playing future nfs games, because they all play about the same differentiating only by cars, tracks, graphics, and a few modes.

iduno, maybe im totally off the mark, but it made since to me when i first thought about it....
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IHYD.Tiza · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Location: Escondido, CA

I had the idea first, you big jerk. *digs up old thread*

J. S. Mill · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:22 am Post subject:

Tiza has the right analogy I think. If you consider MLB Baseball the same as pick-up games in the park, then ITG and DDR should be the same to you.

If not, then they shouldn't.

EDIT: Another interesting analogy might be between Kendo (DDR) and Kenjutsu (ITG). Only with less Satsujin.
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cfusionpm · Trick Member Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Location: San Diego, CA

i guess my point wasnt comparing the subjective aspects or opinions of the games, but the direct comparrison of similarities in software, hardware, and design itself. i'm not saying he's wrong, just that its not really the direction i was going for.

also, what is wrong with my analogy, and what makes tiza's better?
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J. S. Mill · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:52 am Post subject:

cfusionpm · Trick Member Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Location: San Diego, CA

but that only addresses difficulty of stepcharts and communities surrounding the game, both of which are relatively unimportant to my original point. im not talking about how competitive they are or what people think of the games. i'm removing the player entirely and looking only at the physical construction, software of the game, and how it functions.

consider this: back to the racing games. gran turismo 3 generally has short, simple (by comparison) courses. most have between 9 and 15 corners and take anywhere from 1-2 minutes to lap. gran turismo 4 stepped it up with the colossal nurbergring. 13 miles and 120+ corners. obviously a big step up in terms of difficulty as any serious time attacker can attest to. it requires solid concentration, clean lines for every turn, and perfect steering and brake/throttle control for as long as 10 minutes straight. the smallest slip up could mean 1-10 seconds off your time, so skill levels have to be upped significantly to run competitively fast times. would this then be considered such a different game? i dont understand why the difficulty hike makes itg so much more different than ddr. it still plays the same; theres just more/faster notes.

the conclusion i come to is that the games are NOT different by their strict definitions of their hardware, programming, and how they are played. they ARE different by their difficulty levels and types of people and communities that play each, but otherwise are essentially the same game.
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J. S. Mill · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:43 am Post subject:

Dnac10 · Trick Member Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Location: Palo Alto, CA

Marq(uistadorous) · Trick Member Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Location: Arvada, CO

I dont care what people think, I think itg is a different expierience, and we should just be having fun with both games or what ever 1 u like

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IHYD.Blake · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject:

if they did put ITG stuff in DDR I would call them fat and kick their knees. not really.

But yeah, I agree with most everyone. Except for the home made part. ITG looks nicer than DDR does.
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Tyrgannus · Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject:

I am a reglular player of both ITG and DDR and consider them both equally fun. I think ITG is fun because of the challenge and I think DDR is fun because I grew up on it and the step designers seem to click with me more.

I'm not saying I can't do Tell jumps or 32nd note drills, I'm just saying that I think jumps at 260BPM and 33-note runs at 333BPM go better with my personal style.

That being said, I like both games. I play both games equally (or at least close to equally) but I do lump ITG in with the "just another 4-panel dancing game" genre. Note that I didn't lump it into DDR, because DDR is just another 4-panel dancing game as well.
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cfusionpm · Trick Member Joined: 24 Jan 2002 Location: San Diego, CA

Syncopation · Trick Member Joined: 03 Feb 2003

ITG does play a lot like DDR, but with an extreme amount of hopping (mines), sprinting (death runs/jackhammering), and even gymnastics (Anubis-style stretch jumps) that is almost non-existent at any level below Hard, and then almost constant at the Expert level.

But, the mines are just another way of forcing stepping in the middle in most cases, the sprinting that is already in faster DDR songs was just kicked up faster in ITG, and so the only "new" original gameplay element would really seem to be any of hands patterns that forced stretch-jumping (since Pump It Up had triples and quads long before ITG did, but I don't recall them requiring back stretches to hit hands or stretching across the 2p side when playing Doubles).

When it's also taken into consideration that many people see Pump It Up and still think it's DDR (despite the five panel layout), ITG looks even more identical in gameplay to DDR for nearly all levels of play except for the Expert level.