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My home built metal DDR pad (Part IV)
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HitokiriX
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5060. PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Punkly Daft wrote:
About your buttons, start and select will take care of everything, along with the four arrows, of course. You could also use this combo:

(X or Circle) + Triangle

It has the same functions and capabilities as start/select


I think you should be creating pushbuttons for start, select, and triangle if you'd like to use all options. In the new DDR Extreme 2 start and select are used to access the mini-menu while playing. I don't think pressing X+triangle would do the same.

This is a problem for me cuz I'm trying to use a network cable to connect my pad's wires to the contacts in a separate control box but I need to connect 9 WIRES (directional arrows, X, O, Triangle, Start, Select) while the network cable only has 8. I'll need to do something about that...
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marcan
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5061. PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HitokiriX wrote:
This is a problem for me cuz I'm trying to use a network cable to connect my pad's wires to the contacts in a separate control box but I need to connect 9 WIRES (directional arrows, X, O, Triangle, Start, Select) while the network cable only has 8. I'll need to do something about that...


Actually you need 10 (remember ground).

So... I need Start, Select, X, O, /\?

What about the Xbox versions? What buttons do those need?

Yay! Lotsa buttons. But they could prove useful for StepMania too (I could map them for "operator", "screenshot", etc)
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Ulala321
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5062. PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With my X-Box pads, I use B, Select, A, and Start.
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marcan
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5063. PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm going to add 5 or 6 control buttons, and have their mappings configurable.
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HitokiriX
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5064. PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcan wrote:
HitokiriX wrote:
This is a problem for me cuz I'm trying to use a network cable to connect my pad's wires to the contacts in a separate control box but I need to connect 9 WIRES (directional arrows, X, O, Triangle, Start, Select) while the network cable only has 8. I'll need to do something about that...


Actually you need 10 (remember ground).

So... I need Start, Select, X, O, /\?

What about the Xbox versions? What buttons do those need?

Yay! Lotsa buttons. But they could prove useful for StepMania too (I could map them for "operator", "screenshot", etc)


Crap your right! Hey does anyoe know where I could find a 10pin female end and cable? I might just reconsider the whole thing and attach the control board to the pad like in stoli's if the cable's gotta be specially made or something. I don't really want super thick cables either just for the 10 wires.
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marcan
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5065. PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HitokiriX wrote:
Crap your right! Hey does anyoe know where I could find a 10pin female end and cable? I might just reconsider the whole thing and attach the control board to the pad like in stoli's if the cable's gotta be specially made or something. I don't really want super thick cables either just for the 10 wires.


You could use a (proper, full) serial port cable. That should have the 9 pins, plus a shield (use that as ground). Unless they use the shield for pin 5, which is also ground, but I think they use a separate wire. You could then use a DB-9 plug (serial port plug) for connections, and use the metal casing for ground.
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Zeeky
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5066. PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For EX2 I'd just need arrows, x, start, select, and ground to be fully functional, right?
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Aflac
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5067. PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeeky wrote:
For EX2 I'd just need arrows, x, start, select, and ground to be fully functional, right?


Unless you have another controller O would be useful for doing some memory card stuff (copying and such). As for the game itself though, so far I haven't run into any problems not having an O button.
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Kalek
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5068. PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, you could make an O button instead of X so that you could play Japanese versions too. But that would screw up ITG.
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Eradicator
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5069. PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Pad materials questions Reply with quote

I'm starting to piece together my plan for a metal platform based on RipTide's design, and have a couple of questions on materials selection and construction.

The materials list calls for 0.22" thickness plex, two panels per arrow. This is almost half an inch per arrow when assembled, which seems pretty thick compared to the 3/4" ply used for the stationary panels. My guess is that this value was from the older design that used a single layer of plex per arrow - now that the arrow graphic is sandwiched between two layers, the thickness should be cut down, right? Is 1/8" per layer appropriate, for a total of 1/4" thickness when assembled?

Does the 2x4-based frame add much strength, or is this largely to create a well below each panel for wiring/lighting/etc? It appears that for a minimal thickness pad, you could get away with the 33" square base of 3/4" ply, and attach the stationary panels and corner brackets directly to it. I'm not sure how sturdy this would be - how much does 3/4" ply flex on it's own? You'd also be forced to use shorter screws, which could weaken the pad somewhat.
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HitokiriX
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5070. PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Pad materials questions Reply with quote

Eradicator wrote:
I'm starting to piece together my plan for a metal platform based on RipTide's design, and have a couple of questions on materials selection and construction.

The materials list calls for 0.22" thickness plex, two panels per arrow. This is almost half an inch per arrow when assembled, which seems pretty thick compared to the 3/4" ply used for the stationary panels. My guess is that this value was from the older design that used a single layer of plex per arrow - now that the arrow graphic is sandwiched between two layers, the thickness should be cut down, right? Is 1/8" per layer appropriate, for a total of 1/4" thickness when assembled?

Does the 2x4-based frame add much strength, or is this largely to create a well below each panel for wiring/lighting/etc? It appears that for a minimal thickness pad, you could get away with the 33" square base of 3/4" ply, and attach the stationary panels and corner brackets directly to it. I'm not sure how sturdy this would be - how much does 3/4" ply flex on it's own? You'd also be forced to use shorter screws, which could weaken the pad somewhat.


You pretty much have to have 1/2" of plexi or else the arrows will most likely crack under your weight. If you want to save some cash replace the bottom piece of plexi with same thickness plywood. Cheaper and you don't even see the bottom plexi when playing so it doesn't matter what you use. You want to have as little movement between the contacts when you step on an arrow so using the 1/2" compared to 1/4" thick plexi is a big different. Your pad's reaction time will be very slow if you have a lot of space between contacts so go with thicker plexi. Thicker is always better in this case (at least up to 3/4").

Stoli's pad is the pad to go with if you don't want wells. It's almost exactly what you're describing. http://home.comcast.net/~stoli16/ddr/ right there. 3/4" plywood does flex a little, but it's better to bend and not break right? If anything just play on hard surface. [/url]
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Punkly Daft
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5071. PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES!!! I finished my pad! Works perfectly! Go DDRHomepad!

I'll post some pictures soon - once I capture myself testing it out!\

EDIT: When testing, I found that a Start button is required during a name entry. If you used only X and triangle like i did, then just make sure your system is set to have a time limit on the game screens.
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Oh yeah, alright, don't stop the dancing"

-Daft Punk "One More Time"
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jtkauff
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5072. PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking through the various web pages and through this thread, and have a few questions that don't seem to have come up:

I'm in the planning stages for a set of doubles pads - I'll likely be basing them off Riptide's design, but will be doing my own modifications.

For my standing metal plates, I am planning on using 12 gauge stainless steel (11 gauge if possible). This is quite a bit thicker than what other people are using, mainly because it needs to be bent by machine (my father-in-law owns a metal fabricating company, and can do these no problem). From what I'm understanding, this shouldn't need any reinforcement wood beneath it - correct?

Also, most people seem to be using 2 sheets of 1/4" Plexiglas for their panels. Would a single piece of 1/4" Lexan suffice, or is there danger of cracking? Given the incredible strength of Lexan (I've read that Plexiglas is 20x stronger than glass, and Lexan is about 250x) I would think that it should be fine, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Will a single sheet of 1/4" Lexan suffice (perhaps with a very thin, cheep sheet of normal Plexiglas under it to hold the artwork in place), keeping in mind that it will not be supported in the middle?

Are the prices on the brackets still about what is listed on Riptide's page (eight 2-packs for $22.08, so about $2.75 per 2-pack)?

Thanks in advance.
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HitokiriX
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5073. PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jtkauff wrote:
I've been looking through the various web pages and through this thread, and have a few questions that don't seem to have come up:

I'm in the planning stages for a set of doubles pads - I'll likely be basing them off Riptide's design, but will be doing my own modifications.

For my standing metal plates, I am planning on using 12 gauge stainless steel (11 gauge if possible). This is quite a bit thicker than what other people are using, mainly because it needs to be bent by machine (my father-in-law owns a metal fabricating company, and can do these no problem). From what I'm understanding, this shouldn't need any reinforcement wood beneath it - correct?

Also, most people seem to be using 2 sheets of 1/4" Plexiglas for their panels. Would a single piece of 1/4" Lexan suffice, or is there danger of cracking? Given the incredible strength of Lexan (I've read that Plexiglas is 20x stronger than glass, and Lexan is about 250x) I would think that it should be fine, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Will a single sheet of 1/4" Lexan suffice (perhaps with a very thin, cheep sheet of normal Plexiglas under it to hold the artwork in place), keeping in mind that it will not be supported in the middle?

Are the prices on the brackets still about what is listed on Riptide's page (eight 2-packs for $22.08, so about $2.75 per 2-pack)?

Thanks in advance.


The mod's you are taking I assume are to save money right? Well the things you're doing will probably just cost you more. Lexan is super expensive, and chances are even 1/4" of the stuff might crack. Better not take chances. If you really want to save money just put a piece of wood underneath the first piece of plexi/lexan. This is only if you don't want lighting of course because light does not shine through wood (duh).

As for your non-arrow panels, you still need wood reinforcement. A 12 gauge piece of sheet metal is still SHEET metal. A 1/2" piece of sheet metal will most probably not support a 150+lb. person, which is what some of the people that might play on your pad are (not that I am or anything... riiight.gif ). Just spend the extra money on wood. Wood is probably your cheapest building material cuz of its price for bulk. In the end you can't buy anything smaller than a 4' X 8' of plywood normally so just use it all. Better to have everything in the pad safe and secure than have a rickety one for less that might need repairing in the near future. Believe me it really sucks to be playing on a newly built pad only to see it die mid game, especially when disappointing friends in the process.

The last time I went to buy corner brackets they were like 3$ a pack of 2. Apparently Home Depot is being super gay and only supplying the top brand Stanley brackets. I'm currently looking for corner brackets in bulk. I'll post where to find them once I do, because I'm not gonna pay 36$ for just the corner brackets on my pad.
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VoijaRisa
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5074. PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll second the comment on needing to reenforce the 12 gauge. No way it'll stand up to repeated beating.
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jtkauff
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5075. PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HitokiriX wrote:
The mod's you are taking I assume are to save money right?


Well, no, not really - it's more about not doing work that won't be necessary to do. I've got 11/12 gauge available for free, so I'm obviously going to use it instead of purchasing material that is worse. And a place fairly local has Lexan pre-cut to 11" squares at about two dollars more than Plexiglas per/sqft, so again, it seems silly not to get it. What I don't want to do is take unnecessary steps and do work that isn't necessary, so if a step won't be needed since I'll be using stronger materials, I'll obviously not do it. I don't mind spending a little extra money up front, but only if it's needed.

HitokiriX wrote:
Lexan is super expensive, and chances are even 1/4" of the stuff might crack. Better not take chances. If you really want to save money just put a piece of wood underneath the first piece of plexi/lexan.


Makes sense. And I've got enough scrap wood around that might just be the way that I go until I decide to light it.

HitokiriX wrote:
As for your non-arrow panels, you still need wood reinforcement. A 12 gauge piece of sheet metal is still SHEET metal. A 1/2" piece of sheet metal will most probably not support a 150+lb. person.


Well, a 1/2" piece of metal would definitely hold even the heaviest people, but I'm assuming you meant 1/12" E1.gif Point taken, especially since all this adds is extra time. I think you'd be surprised at how durable sheet metal of that gauge is - my father-in-law (remember, it's his metal fab company, so he knows his stuff) said that 11 gauge should be fine with people up to 300 pounds or so, but wanted some feedback from people who knew the game more - supporting is one thing, and heavy DDR use is another. Looks like there are a couple of votes for support, so that's the direction I'll go.

HitokiriX wrote:
Better to have everything in the pad safe and secure than have a rickety one for less that might need repairing in the near future.


Very true. I suppose with the amount of materials I already have I should have just planned on building more to spec anyway.

HitokiriX wrote:
The last time I went to buy corner brackets they were like 3$ a pack of 2. Apparently Home Depot is being super gay and only supplying the top brand Stanley brackets. I'm currently looking for corner brackets in bulk. I'll post where to find them once I do, because I'm not gonna pay 36$ for just the corner brackets on my pad.


Ug, no kidding, especially since that ends up being more visual than anything.

Thanks for all the feedback.
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t-mac
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5076. PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone!

I've started to build my own Stoli-style dance pad.
One little difference — I'm going the nine-button way to make it truly universal, like the CobaltFlux.

While temporariry short of cash for materials, I've built a nice control box with a 9-pin serial port and printed all the panel decals.

Check out my ITG-inspired design:

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FoxFireX
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5077. PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

t-mac wrote:
One little difference — I'm going the nine-button way to make it truly universal, like the CobaltFlux.

While temporariry short of cash for materials, I've built a nice control box with a 9-pin serial port

I like your panel graphics, but I've gotta ask... If you're planning on nine panels, and a nine pin connector, how are you going to connect ground? Unless you put some electronics in the pad itself to stack the signals, you're going to need one more line than you have panels. For nine panels, you generally need ten wires.
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t-mac
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5078. PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FoxFireX wrote:
For nine panels, you generally need ten wires.

Yeah, you're right. But look at the serial port connector — 9 pins plus ground «border» surrounding them equals 10 ^_^
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Klaiviel
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5079. PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question for someone with an electronics backround. I am making a riptide style pad with one exception I am modifying it so that the screws (or whatever I use for contacts) are all grounds, and the 4 sheet metal pieces under the plexiglas will be connected and carrying the positive charge. What I want to do is add lighting using LEDs without and external power source. I understand that a generic PS2 controller supplies 5 volts. If the LEDs all have 3.6V forward voltage and 20 mA forward current, how many would I be able to add under each plexiglas piece before having to worry about damaging the PS2 controller? This is keeping in mind that it is possible for someone to hold down all 4 buttons at one time and that the resistance of 10' of cat5 cable (the ammount used per plexiglas step) is about .3 ohms. Also which would allow more LEDs, wiring them under the step in series or in parallel? Thanks!
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