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0rion
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Location: Kirby will explain it to you. |
20.  Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Cutriss wrote: | | (This: â¶) |
And of course, I was only kidding.
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 21. Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just to avoid confusion from anyone else that's reading this, the PM from Baggage was sent to me as a lock request. Nobody's snooping on anyone's PMs.
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Tsuka18
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Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Location: Houston, Texas |
| 22. Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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I know this is a tried and old topic, but I just thought I'd tell you that 'K' himself let me in on a little info when I was talking to him, about why the Edit mode being noticeably absent from ITG ps2...although he was vague about it (He probably really wasn't at any liberty to say), but a frown followed by his statement made it apparent that it was indeed legalities that stopped RoXoR from putting in the Edit mode.
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ddrmaster99
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Thomas Hobbes
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Location: San Francisco // NorCal |
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PedanticOmbudsman
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Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Fayetteville, AR |
| 25. Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LoCalDJ wrote: | | but a frown followed by his statement made it apparent that it was indeed legalities that stopped RoXoR from putting in the Edit mode. |
And yet the recently-announced PC/Mac version of ITG is going to have Edit Mode enabled.
That confuses things even more.
Legally, there wouldn't be a difference between console and PC, so that couldn't be the difference; it must be a difference of then versus now.
For idle speculation, here are three mutually-exclusive possibilities:
1. RedOctane might not be involved in the release of the PC version. It's possible that it was RedOctane's lawyers who got scared of Konami and issued the order to play it safe by turning off Edit Mode.
2. RoXoR and Konami could have been working on a settlement all this time, and the legal issues between them are the process of resolution; they simply haven't announced it yet.
3. Edit Mode wasn't actually removed from the PS2 version for legal reasons, but for some other reason, and Kyle Ward just frowns randomly from time to time, or you simply misread his signals.
So, it could be any of those three, or, more likely, something else entirely. |
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Dan Druff
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Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Location: Louisiana |
| 26. Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going out on a limb with this, but perhaps SONY doesn't want anyone connecting USB pen drives to the PlayStation 2. I've only seen cheat devices like Code Breaker or Action Replay use the pen drive, and none of those cheat devices are officially licensed by SONY. Of course edits don't have to go anywhere, but the only way to transport an edit would be to use a pen drive.
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PedanticOmbudsman
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Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Fayetteville, AR |
| 27. Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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That's a good point, however, not being able to use USB drives wouldn't explain why they disabled edit mode entirely. The US DDR games had an edit mode, even though I don't think any of them (unlike the Japanese versions) had an arcade transfer feature. Edit mode can be quite usable even if you can't do anything with your edits but play them on your own console.
As I seem to recall, they announced a while before release that the game wouldn't have USB support because of technical limitations, but there was no announcement at the time about disabling edit mode. It should've still been possible to use edit mode even though the game didn't have USB support. It was later, very shortly prior to release they they announced edit mode was being disabled completely.
So I don't think that the removal of USB support and the removal of edit mode were necessarily directly connected. USB support could still have been useful without edit mode, and edit mode could still have been useful without USB support, so removing one doesn't necessarily mean removing the other. I think there were two seperate issues. |
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 28. Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | | That's a good point, however, not being able to use USB drives wouldn't explain why they disabled edit mode entirely. The US DDR games had an edit mode, even though I don't think any of them (unlike the Japanese versions) had an arcade transfer feature. Edit mode can be quite usable even if you can't do anything with your edits but play them on your own console. |
That was because there was "technically" no reason to use Arcade Link, since there weren't any official DDR machines in the US that were capable of it. | PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | | As I seem to recall, they announced a while before release that the game wouldn't have USB support because of technical limitations, but there was no announcement at the time about disabling edit mode. It should've still been possible to use edit mode even though the game didn't have USB support. It was later, very shortly prior to release they they announced edit mode was being disabled completely. |
IIRC, it was less of a technical issue and more of a bureaucratic one - Sony was dragging their feet on supplying the drivers for accessing FAT-based filesystems via the USB port. There may have also been an issue of not-100%-compatibility with the then-available set of arcade machines with any old off-the-shelf thumbdrive.
Newer versions of the arcade software have updated USB drivers in the kernel, and that has improved compatability a great, great deal. | PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | | I think there were two seperate issues. |
Agreed.
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Tsuka18
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Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Location: Houston, Texas |
| 29. Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I didn't get bashed after all, after that post... I was beginning to think it was a mistake. 
Try rereading those patents that Konami holds over the Edit mode for DDR- It might only pertain to the console versions.
(You know how the government refers to them... "Portable console devices that can be connected to visual sets that emulate person's actions with a remote device")- or some jazz like that...
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PedanticOmbudsman
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Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Fayetteville, AR |
| 30. Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LoCalDJ wrote: | | Try rereading those patents that Konami holds over the Edit mode for DDR- It might only pertain to the console versions. |
It basically just says "computer", which could cover anything with a CPU, be it a game console, PC, arcade system, or pretty much anything else. Lawyers who write patents never restrict themselves in any way if they can avoid it. They get paid to write descriptions to be as vague and broad as possible, so that the patent can cover as much unrelated territory as humanly possible. They fill patents with ambiguous language, confusing descriptions, random and ill-defined ideas for alternate configurations and applications of the product, impossible-to-understand lawyerspeak, violations of the laws of common sense and/or physics, and all sorts of other gibberish, to increase the odds that future inventions by others can be shoehorned into seeming to violate even completely unrelated patents, and so that nobody can invent anything without knowing for sure whether or not they'll conflict with any existing patents.
For example, this is the complete "brief summary" of DDR's "Edit Mode" feature:
| Quote: | | Disclosed is a game system which matches a player's tastes. In a game system operating in time with music, it is possible to select an edit mode for editing timing data which define timings of operations. In the edit mode, an edit window having a predetermined display range is displayed on a screen of a display device in correspondence with information representing a position in a tune. Images in the edit window are scrolled so that the position of a target to be edited set inside the edit window moves forward and backward through the tune. When an operation is performed to provide marks, timing data for showing an operation timing of a control member provided in correspondence with the operation is provided at the position of the edit object in the edit window, and in addition, the timing data during editing is updated so that the position in the tune corresponding to the position of the edit object is defined as a operation timing. |
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is yet another example of why software patents are literally the worst fucking idea ever. If you live in one of the dwindling number of countries that hasn't yet allowed software patents, you're a very lucky person. Allowing software patents in the United States (which started circa 1981-'82) will be seen in retrospect as one of the worst disasters in the country's history.
Many countries still don't allow software patents, fortunately, and India recently squashed proposed measures that would've allowed software patents in that country. The big software companies spent billions of dollars trying to get the measures pushed through quietly without the public finding out, but public awareness campaigns and dedicated fights from free-speech and free-market advocacy groups helped reason to win out in the end. LOL, I heard that the guys over at Microsoft were totally hiding in the restroom cutting themselves after that happened. |
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Be_Without_You
Trick Member
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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| 31. Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Unlocked the Edit well That's Right Great I Deal |
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Skit
Trick Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Prescott, Arizona |
| 32. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| Be_Without_You wrote: | | Unlocked the Edit well That's Right Great I Deal |
Double yoo tee ef |
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zombiejesus9001
Trick Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
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| 33. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't pump it up for xbox have an edit mode that you can download? so why is everyone saying konami patent edit if pump has edit mode?
I think they just got rid of it because it was more of a hassle to allow usb stick usage on a ps2 so they just scraped it. |
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Cutriss
Staff Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 34. Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Some people just don't get it...
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J. S. Mill
Maniac Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
| 35. Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: |
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De-Annouced, as per the new stickied thread (Berau of Investigation)
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