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Uiru
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Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Location: the floating castle of Newfoundland |
20.  Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: |
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You're right, the game could function like KCET themselves made it and I still wouldn't buy it. I would hate it less, however, which is the best case scenario here. I don't like the thought of Roxor thinking that because I (used arbitrarily) play dancing games, I will buy ANY dancing game, regardless of quality, simply because it's more 'extreme' (lol). The only real reason why I didn't sell Max2 US is because I had already bought it before realizing the extent of its crapitude and didn't want to have a space on my shelf (this is also the exact reason why I bought IIDX 5th; nothing wrong with the game but all the songs I like on it are in 7th).
So basically I am willing to devote a large amount of wind to principle.
~Uiru
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mynameismark
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Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| 21. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Uiru wrote: | So I need to play the game for at least half an hour to be able to formulate a proper opinion of the game? Or do you mean I need to play for half an hour to get to the song select screen? When I make use of this delicious opportunity, which won't be now because I don't really feel like it, I will be pointing out to them the bugs, the loading times, and the retarded censorship, which even the most shining ITG fanboy with a cock that could sink Manhattan would agree was stupid. As I have said: Even starting with the premise that ITG is fine and good, (READ THAT AGAIN YOU DUMB FUCKERS WHO READ THE LAST LINE AND FORMULATE RESPONSES BASED ON IT) ITG PS2 is an insult to the music game community and video games in general. Shovelware is not cool. I won't take it from KCET, I won't take it from KCEH, and I certainly won't take it from a bunch of pirates whose game was based off a program that DID work, and worked well, I might add.
Putting it another way, if the game was really so great, there'd be no flaws, and nothing to worry about. I hope you're not worried that I'm going to somehow offend Roxor (I don't plan on c&ping my sigged rant, as amazing as THAT would be) by pointing out to them that the PS2 incarnation of their "hard work" is a fucking joke. I don't need to tell them that Konami is going to rape them in the ass with a harpoon long enough to make the guy who wrote Pandemonium's steps feel self-conscious; they know that already. I am going to tell them that peripheral companies cannot expect to jump into software design without knowing SOMETHING about how it is done beforehand. Also, rush jobs suck, and I simply think it's pathetic that a company can shovel out half-baked crap like this and have people praise it up and down as being somehow new and improved. What does Roxor think of you people, producing shit like this? It boggles my mind.
~Uiru |
Good job shtting all over this thread. You could have summed up your post with one sentence, though.
"I think ITG is bad because of long load times and a very small bit of censorship that makes no difference at all in terms of gameplay."
Every game has flaws, no game is perfect, and nearly every game has load times.
That aside I think Roxor breathed some life into the dying dance game commmunity with ITG. They brought something new to the table, something that could finally compete with Konami.
It's obvious that Roxor had the gamer in mind when they created ITG. Even little things that were seemingly too hard for Konami to implement, such as cel-shaded arrows which are much easier to read, arrow colors that follow the beat, dimmed backrounds which also help arrow readability, more speed/cmods, and a huge array of mods to use as we please, whether its to make an easy chart more fun, or a hard chart more difficult.
Add all of these features and quirks in with much more innovative and difficult stepcharts that include mines or hands, more "mature" music, and you've got a dance game that no other can be compared to. So what if it has a few minor flaws like long load times, a few censored songs, or a bug here or there? For a first release they did a seriously awesome job, and I applaud them for that.
And please Uiru, if you want to cling onto a dead game, fine, cling onto DDR all you want. But please, just shut up about ITG. Play your DDR, have fun with it, whatever, nobody cares, but jesus christ we're all sick and tired of you moaning about how much you loathe Roxor and ITG. We know. We don't care. Shut up. And take that stupid link out of your sig, it's an insult to good, coherent, informed rants everywhere. Yours is none of these things.
Linking to this thread on the main page was a bad idea, I think. |
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ch
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Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Location: IN UR FORUM POSTING ON UR THRED |
| 22. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:25 am Post subject: Re: Share your opinion about In The Groove! |
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| Cutriss wrote: | | This is not a debate thread, so don't do it here. |
we dont want to hear it. roxor does. mail them.
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Synaesthesia
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Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Crushing all deceivers, smashing non-believers |
| 23. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Uiru wrote: | | I hate ITG lol |
Sure, the first console release was flawed; maybe I'm just crazy, but none of the bugs really affected me in a horrible way. TOPGRADE: I don't care, I always sort alphabetically. Load times: I'm reasonably patient (I lived with 28.8K internet for a LONG time), and I can always just get something to drink or clean my shoes off. Editing: the only song to even catch my ear was Cryosleep, since I'm used to the long version, and the way they cut it threw me off the first time I played it. Lyrics typically don't make that much difference to me, since I'm concentrating on, oh, I don't know, the steps.
As far as people praising ITG, I may be mistaken, but I think you're letting the popularity of ITG console overlap with the popularity of ITG in general. (I still never saw any sales figures for ITG PS2; I'd be rather interested to see them.) Many of the ITG players I know don't have the console version at all; they enjoy it for the arcade experience (and all that is included therein). At least for me, ITG made me want to go back to the arcade more. Before I got it on PS2 (which was the only way I could play), I would go to the arcade sometime between almost never and never. I played DDR in the arcade more if only to practice for ITG; I know if my college arcade had both ITG and DDR, I'd only play ITG because I don't have fun with DDR any more. Trying to score in DDR (for me) is either really repetetive or really frustrating; repepetitive when I'm having to play a 6 foot song that I hate for the 3rd time just because I didn't SDG it the first 2, and frustrating when I get a Great in the middle of 1/8 note stream with no audible change in my timing. Watching the people who are actually good (as opposed to me) play against each other is even boring, too. The first guy wins his song by something like 2 greats to 3, same for the 2nd guy, and the last song (random) is often some easy song determining the winner by who got the AAA and who got the flag. Have those 2 play that last song again, and the one who didn't win will probably get lucky on the 2nd go-around. That little story about the competetition goes back to what I was saying about the arcade experience, since in my experience everyone plays ITG with some level of competition (either against self or others). I suppose if someone doesn't like that aura of competition, they'd be turned off by ITG and would rather play DDR casually.
Most of what I like about ITG is technical stuff thanks to the SM engine, such as actual 1/12 notes, and derivations thereof. Rendered models, not sprites. Syncing that feels more correct. Tighter timing windows (Excellent is NOT like Perfect; quit linking the 2 Greats together and forming a connection. An ITG Great feels like I was so far off that it should've been a DDR Good.) Music quality is a matter of personal opinion; has always been and always will be. ITG2 definitely had a lot more songs I liked than ITG(1), though the only tracks I found to be outright bad were the ones by Anet, Dax, and MC Frontalot, respectively. Would ITG be more awesome if it had more eurobeat? Hells yeah. But of course, that's just my opinion; I'm sure plenty of other people think euro is for tripfags. I'm sure I'll think of plenty more stuff when I actually send them an e-mail, but this'll give me a good start.
EDIT: Whoops, I started posting this earlier but got bored and played some DotA, then came back and finished, and by the time that was all done, there were already a ton more debate-like posts. Pretend this came right after DAF and didn't contain anything that could start/continue a debate.
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ch
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Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Location: IN UR FORUM POSTING ON UR THRED |
| 24. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
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omg you guys
we dont care about your little console wars. but roxor does. don't tell us, tell them.
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Uiru
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Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Location: the floating castle of Newfoundland |
| 25. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:45 am Post subject: |
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"It's obvious that Roxor had the gamer in mind when they created ITG."
Interesting word choice there... "created". Ha. Credit where credit is due, please. I think I would be much less critical of ITG if Roxor simply gave credit to the company that created their game. You will note that I have absolutely nothing negative to say about Pump It Up.
"such as cel-shaded arrows which are much easier to read,"
Does this matter? Really? The arrows LOOK prettier, somewhat, but at this point they could be identical 2D circles drawn in Paint for all I care. If you think arrows are read based on appearance rather than simply column position, play more Extreme US Mission Mode. Butterfly arrows in Extreme 2 don't really affect anything. Having right and down swapped does.
"arrow colors that follow the beat,"
Is DDR not doing this fine already? Reddish, bluish, purplish, highlighed by Solo if one so desires. Colors cycle through the Vivid mix differently depending on the beat of the arrow. I haven't studied the physiology of an ITG arrow, but I'm hoping there's more to this than simply "well ITG is better in every other way, so...". Everyone around here plays Metal, though, so maybe that has something to do with it. Looks like Solo to me, with green 16ths.
"dimmed backrounds which also help arrow readability,"
Name a DDR mix that doesn't feature the ability to turn down background brightness. Having the option for something interesting behind the arrows is better than forced pale tech-demo trash.
"more speed/cmods,"
Speed mods are fine. CMods are dumb. BPM changes exist for a reason; how shocking would Max. (period) have been on C400? Don't CMods make it easier? Isn't easy bad?
"and a huge array of mods to use as we please, whether its to make an easy chart more fun, or a hard chart more difficult"
More like press the button through. The only cool thing I've ever seen that retarded list of mods do is put what I think were 64th jump streams into an "Easy" song, or something foolish like that. The little brother replicated it on some ITG version of SM, and Autoplay was getting misses in it. This isn't something you can actually play, of course, it's just fun to watch someone do it. Once.
"cling onto a dead game,"
So Extreme 2 is the last one now? Is that the 8th or 9th last one? I'm losing count. At this rate, it seems better to be a dead game than a dead company, which Roxor will be in March '07.
"And take that stupid link out of your sig, it's an insult to good, coherent, informed rants everywhere."
I rather like it where it is, thanks. The only people terribly offended by it are the fanboys, which pleases me. And if there are any factual errors or omissions, feel free to correct me on them.
"Lyrics typically don't make that much difference to me, since I'm concentrating on, oh, I don't know, the steps."
Why have music at all, then? That'd cut the overhead on a dancing game by about 99%, I'd say. I was half interested in giving Torn a shot on a Tuesday morning when nobody would see me, until I found out the mix was garbage, and then the home version comes along with 'naked' edited out. I didn't know ITG's target audience was comprised mostly of seven year olds. Konami seems perfectly capable of getting an F-bomb in an E10 game; why can't Roxor?
"Story about competition"
And how is this different than ITG? What magical attribute does ITG have that DDR doesn't in this area? As far as I can tell, since ITG is better- I mean, harder, it'll be longer before this happens to it, but there is absolutely nothing in place to prevent this from eventually happening. Instead of PA, you have two guys, invariably clinging to the bar looking even more foolish than usual, drowning out the sound of the music by trying to break the machine they're playing on? Sign me up!
I want everyone to ponder the following before replying:
"I think I would be much less critical of ITG if Roxor simply gave credit to the company that created their game."
~Uiru
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ch
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Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Location: IN UR FORUM POSTING ON UR THRED |
| 26. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:03 am Post subject: |
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is this thing on?
i could have sworn there was no debating in here.
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Apu
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Joined: 05 Sep 2005
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| 27. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| The games was ok, but im am huge DDr fan and I didnt really have that much fun. i need more fun songs on ITG like Candy in DDR. |
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arnoct
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Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada |
| 28. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:08 am Post subject: |
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I love how Uiru is doggy about ITG yet still hasn't actually played it for more than five minutes. The only real flaws of the game are the loading times, and they aren't as "extreme" as some people would have you believe; and possibly the censorship, which I admit is kind of bad.
Don't base your opinion on other people's reviews, actually go and play the damn game before you spout off crap like this.
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DDRNemesis
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Kyrandian
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Joined: 24 Mar 2002
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| 30. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Too many people make the assumption that ITG caters only to the top tier players. True, there are some challenging steps on ITG, but Roxor didn't neglect the Hard and Medium steps, which are at least as fun as Heavy or Standard charts on DDR (on ITG2 that is). The game is supposed to appeal to every skill level, and it saddens me the few 12s/13s is the game overshadow the fun 8s and 9s (which is what the majority or the stepcharts are rated).
| Uiru wrote: | | CMods are dumb. BPM changes exist for a reason; how shocking would Max. (period) have been on C400? Don't CMods make it easier? Isn't easy bad? |
CMods are intended to help players learn the steps before being subjected to bpm changes. Most players don't use them since they DQ, but they're still there to ease players in to difficult charts. Same goes for any "remove x" mod. They're there to help players adapt.
| Uiru wrote: | | You will note that I have absolutely nothing negative to say about Pump It Up. |
Pump it Up has stepcharts far more difficult than anything on ITG, do you think the game is intended to create a elitist contest among the best players? They're only trying to keep the game fun and interesting for veteran pumpers. Pump it Up has many fun freestylable steps as well, and the game has successfully pleased more than type of player. Why can't ITG do this as well? Don't try to fault Roxor for upping the difficulty. Insane high level charts are something you'll find in every major rhythm game still in production but DDR. Pop'n, IIDX, Pump, Ez2DJ, GF/DM, etc. Those aren't too "extreme" are they? |
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DDRNemesis
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PedanticOmbudsman
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Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| 32. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:42 am Post subject: |
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E-mail l sent to RoXoR:
The best thing about In The Groove is how it pisses off ignorant Konami fanboys who can't accept that their game is dead and nobody cares about it anymore. Keep up the good work and keep making the last dozen Konami fanboys furious with impotent emo rage. Plus, ITG2 is several orders of magnitude better than any other music game, ever. They're taking away our DDR Extreme machine and nobody even cares because everybody played ITG2 now and nobody touches DDR. You guys are awesome.
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Da-Risin-Smoke
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| 33. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:10 am Post subject: |
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the game itself is way better than DDR, but the songs are not as exciting.
after playing the paranoia songs, candy, etc. these songs are not as thrilling.
but, ITG songs are way harder than DDR songs, so i actually have a challenge.
overall, i still prefer DDR.
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Kyrandian
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Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Location: Portland, OR |
| 34. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| DDRNemesis wrote: | | DDR is a dancing simulator. No one ever dances to every single note in a song. Pop'n, IIDX, Pump, Ez2DJ, GF/DM, etc are all instrument simulators for the most part. The charts are more difficult because you are making the music. ITG isn't a simulator to anything, it should not be called a dance game. |
Pop'n is not a simluator of anything, but that doesn't detract at all from it's fun factor. Pump is a dance simulator, and it's possible to argue it places a larger emphasis on dancing than DDR does. A more interesting question is whether any game can truly simulate dancing.
I'm about to send my comments on ITG ps2 in. The way the request is worded makes it sound like they're looking for feedback or testamonials. There's no doubt, they already know the game's flaws, so I'll try to be positive with my feedback. |
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Mart
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JJK
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Location: Fullerton, CA |
| 36. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | E-mail l sent to RoXoR:
The best thing about In The Groove is how it pisses off ignorant Konami fanboys who can't accept that their game is dead and nobody cares about it anymore. Keep up the good work and keep making the last dozen Konami fanboys furious with impotent emo rage. Plus, ITG2 is several orders of magnitude better than any other music game, ever. They're taking away our DDR Extreme machine and nobody even cares because everybody played ITG2 now and nobody touches DDR. You guys are awesome. |
You are the greatest. |
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Yarni
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Location: Chicopee, MA |
| 37. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yarni on Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Yarni
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Location: Chicopee, MA |
| 38. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Okay I really don't know what happened with my post right before this, but i didn't try to double post or nuff'm...
| Kyrandian wrote: |
| Uiru wrote: | | CMods are dumb. BPM changes exist for a reason; how shocking would Max. (period) have been on C400? Don't CMods make it easier? Isn't easy bad? |
CMods are intended to help players learn the steps before being subjected to bpm changes. Most players don't use them since they DQ, but they're still there to ease players in to difficult charts. Same goes for any "remove x" mod. They're there to help players adapt. |
This is a little off topic, but then again this whole thread has gone "haywire". I'm not debating or anything, and I'm not trying to flame, but although speed mods DO help make things easier, it is absolutely unneccassary (I'm sure i spelled that wrong) to have a Cmod. Ihave to agree with Uiru, by saying BPM changes are supposed to make the song a challenge. It is very painful... literally painful, for me to watch noobs playing slow songs on 3x speed solo with freezes off. That kind of mod abuse makes me sick. They wouldn't be bad once in a while, but there are players who "adapt" with these mods, and literally CAN NOT play without them. If you can't play DDR or ITG normally, with no mods... then you can't play DDR or ITG, now can you? some people can't play anything lower than 2x speed... now imagine that person playing on DDR 5th MIX!!! how would they function?!? no speed boosters, no solo, different arrow codes! It is a joke, Cmods make me upset, because it shows where Americans are going as a DDR community... "down the crapper". |
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NSMH
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Location: San Diego |
| 39. Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | now imagine that person playing on DDR 5th MIX!!! how would they function?!? no speed boosters, no solo, different arrow codes! It is a joke, Cmods make me upset, because it shows where Americans are going as a DDR community... "down the crapper". |
Actually, on DDR, I can read 1x quite well. It's probably the fact that the arrows are skinnyer. ITG, on the other hand, is a lot harder to read at slow speeds, but also looks WAY BETTER. Crappy DDR sprites with distracting backrounds = lame.
Oh, and CMods DO disqualify you, guys. So I see no trouble in using it. Also, the person playing it deserves any of the mods he wants to choose. It's their money.
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