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lolinternet
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Location: Woodhaven, MI |
60.  Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ~^-^~ wrote: | | Where is my Rhythm and Police? WHere is my Exotic Ethnic? Where is my PSMO, or my PSM/PS for that matter? And where are my Spin the Disc? |
You want crossovers? Tons of 8s and 9s have crossover streams.
Exotic Ethnic? HVAM? Disconnected expert? Monolith Hard? Bloodrush Hard?
PSM, PSMO? Mythology expert? The Beginning?
Spin the Disc? What, more crossovers? Awesome.
So you want crossovers, fast and slow. PLENTY of songs have charts with them, but not that many run the 'wow this stepchart is awesome and hard because it has crossovers and a spin or two' gimmick. Is that what you want? |
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lildrchris25
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| 61. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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if you hate the stepcharts, try edits. maybe you can come up with something that you think is good, and you would enjoy playing itg at the arcade.
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lolinternet
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| 62. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| lildrchris25 wrote: | | if you hate the stepcharts, try edits. maybe you can come up with something that you think is good, and you would enjoy playing itg at the arcade. |
Yeah, this is totally true. You could play all of your edits on a dedicab. It seriously doesn't get much better than that. |
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~^-^~
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| 63. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| lolinternet wrote: | | ~^-^~ wrote: | | Where is my Rhythm and Police? WHere is my Exotic Ethnic? Where is my PSMO, or my PSM/PS for that matter? And where are my Spin the Disc? |
You want crossovers? Tons of 8s and 9s have crossover streams.
Exotic Ethnic? HVAM? Disconnected expert? Monolith Hard? Bloodrush Hard?
PSM, PSMO? Mythology expert? The Beginning?
Spin the Disc? What, more crossovers? Awesome.
So you want crossovers, fast and slow. PLENTY of songs have charts with them, but not that many run the 'wow this stepchart is awesome and hard because it has crossovers and a spin or two' gimmick. Is that what you want? |
Very few of the 8s and 9s have ANYTHING interesting. And "crossovers" ( as in    ) Is not at all what I'm talking about (well, not exclusively) -- using those songs as an example only shows your lack of knowledge on the subject, sorry.
Aside from that, you listed one or two songs, whereas the examples from DDR (one mix) from each school of technique could go on for ages. Once you're playing 11s in ITG, it basically boils down to "when's the 16th run coming!?"
| Quote: | | but not that many run the 'wow this stepchart is awesome and hard because it has crossovers and a spin or two' gimmick. Is that what you want? |
Uhhh, yes. I would much rather have that gimmick than "oh wow it uses 16th notes." Sorry, that does not impress me.
And why, pre tell, should I play my own edits on an ITG machine? The charts are all terrible so I should make my own? That's a terrible argument. Why don't I just play edits on a DDR machine? It isn't like they didn't have that functionality long beforehand. |
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lolinternet
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Location: Woodhaven, MI |
| 64. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ~^-^~ wrote: | | lolinternet wrote: | | ~^-^~ wrote: | | Where is my Rhythm and Police? WHere is my Exotic Ethnic? Where is my PSMO, or my PSM/PS for that matter? And where are my Spin the Disc? |
You want crossovers? Tons of 8s and 9s have crossover streams.
Exotic Ethnic? HVAM? Disconnected expert? Monolith Hard? Bloodrush Hard?
PSM, PSMO? Mythology expert? The Beginning?
Spin the Disc? What, more crossovers? Awesome.
So you want crossovers, fast and slow. PLENTY of songs have charts with them, but not that many run the 'wow this stepchart is awesome and hard because it has crossovers and a spin or two' gimmick. Is that what you want? |
Very few of the 8s and 9s have ANYTHING interesting. And "crossovers" ( as in ) Is not at all what I'm talking about (well, not exclusively) -- using those songs as an example only shows your lack of knowledge on the subject, sorry.
Aside from that, you listed one or two songs, whereas the examples from DDR (one mix) from each school of technique could go on for ages. Once you're playing 11s in ITG, it basically boils down to "when's the 16th run coming!?"
| Quote: | | but not that many run the 'wow this stepchart is awesome and hard because it has crossovers and a spin or two' gimmick. Is that what you want? |
Uhhh, yes. I would much rather have that gimmick than "oh wow it uses 16th notes." Sorry, that does not impress me.
And why, pre tell, should I play my own edits on an ITG machine? The charts are all terrible so I should make my own? That's a terrible argument. That's like me buying milk with hair in it at the grocery store and my neighbor telling me to put my own hair in it.
Or something. That was a bad example but I'll leave it because it's funny!  |
So what am I missing? What's so interesting about HVAM, Exotic Ethnic, and Rhythm and Police? Honestly I don't see how sims like these are anywhere near the quality of ITG 9s. They are just 8th runs with crossovers. WOW SO AWESOME!!1
And if you don't want 16th note runs in songs, then what do you expect Roxor to do with the 10-13 difficulty songs? You said you'd rather have songs like HVAM etc, but HVAM is only a 9. So what is it that you're asking for? Songs like this cannot fill the 10-13 gap. Only a handful of stepcharts in DDR can, but they still aren't good charts. The 10s in DDR have 8th runs instead of 16ths because of their speed, but really what's the difference? There is none. None at all.
If you don't like the charts, fine, just don't play at all, but I think they're a shit ton funner than the ones in DDR. If that means i'm a newb, fine, whatever, but I'll defend charts like Euphoria expert until you show me a game that does it better. And that game isn't DDR, that's for sure. |
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~^-^~
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| 65. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| lolinternet wrote: |
So what am I missing? What's so interesting about HVAM, Exotic Ethnic, and Rhythm and Police? Honestly I don't see how sims like these are anywhere near the quality of ITG 9s. They are just 8th runs with crossovers. WOW SO AWESOME!!1
And if you don't want 16th note runs in songs, then what do you expect Roxor to do with the 10-13 difficulty songs? You said you'd rather have songs like HVAM etc, but HVAM is only a 9. So what is it that you're asking for? Songs like this cannot fill the 10-13 gap. Only a handful of stepcharts in DDR can, but they still aren't good charts. The 10s in DDR have 8th runs instead of 16ths because of their speed, but really what's the difference? There is none. None at all.
If you don't like the charts, fine, just don't play at all, but I think they're a shit ton funner than the ones in DDR. If that means i'm a newb, fine, whatever, but I'll defend charts like Euphoria expert until you show me a game that does it better. And that game isn't DDR, that's for sure. |
First, point out where I said 16th note runs are always the devil and should never happen. Look, if you don't know what could fill that gap you have no imagination. A song can use 16th notes and be a 12 or 13 without a gratuitous run thrown in the middle for virtually no reason -- it's all about their placement and rhythmic use. ITG has no sense of this. If you want, I can make something like this, I have no problem showing you what I mean.
and RnP IS special. It's more than just "crossovers" -- it's very, very pivot heavy and uses a lot of advanced technique. If you don't know it already, sorry, I'm not going to open a school for DDR simfiles.
Besides, if you actually like Euphoria, there's very little help for you anyway. |
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lolinternet
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Location: Woodhaven, MI |
| 66. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ~^-^~ wrote: | | lolinternet wrote: |
So what am I missing? What's so interesting about HVAM, Exotic Ethnic, and Rhythm and Police? Honestly I don't see how sims like these are anywhere near the quality of ITG 9s. They are just 8th runs with crossovers. WOW SO AWESOME!!1
And if you don't want 16th note runs in songs, then what do you expect Roxor to do with the 10-13 difficulty songs? You said you'd rather have songs like HVAM etc, but HVAM is only a 9. So what is it that you're asking for? Songs like this cannot fill the 10-13 gap. Only a handful of stepcharts in DDR can, but they still aren't good charts. The 10s in DDR have 8th runs instead of 16ths because of their speed, but really what's the difference? There is none. None at all.
If you don't like the charts, fine, just don't play at all, but I think they're a shit ton funner than the ones in DDR. If that means i'm a newb, fine, whatever, but I'll defend charts like Euphoria expert until you show me a game that does it better. And that game isn't DDR, that's for sure. |
First, point out where I said 16th note runs are always the devil and should never happen. Look, if you don't know what could fill that gap you have no imagination. A song can use 16th notes and be a 12 or 13 without a gratuitous run thrown in the middle for virtually no reason -- it's all about their placement and rhythmic use. ITG has no sense of this. If you want, I can make something like this, I have no problem showing you what I mean.
and RnP IS special. It's more than just "crossovers" -- it's very, very pivot heavy and uses a lot of advanced technique. If you don't know it already, sorry, I'm not going to open a school for DDR simfiles.
Besides, if you actually like Euphoria, there's very little help for you anyway. |
Elaborate on why Euphoria is a bad chart, and why your charts are awesome. Please.
Give examples of what can be done to make songs conceivably difficult enough to be 12s aside from what ITG has done, including but not limited to what you see in !, Determinator, Go 60 Go, HOTN, Bloodrush, and Euphoria. |
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Arch0wl VI
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| 67. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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RNP is not a very good chart. Exotic Ethnic is alright. HVAM is a good chart.
Stop being a DDR posterboy. I'm pushed for time so I have basically 30 seconds to write this post, but you have no idea what you're talking about, "~^-^~".
Last edited by Arch0wl VI on Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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~^-^~
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| 68. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| lolinternet wrote: | | ~^-^~ wrote: | | lolinternet wrote: |
So what am I missing? What's so interesting about HVAM, Exotic Ethnic, and Rhythm and Police? Honestly I don't see how sims like these are anywhere near the quality of ITG 9s. They are just 8th runs with crossovers. WOW SO AWESOME!!1
And if you don't want 16th note runs in songs, then what do you expect Roxor to do with the 10-13 difficulty songs? You said you'd rather have songs like HVAM etc, but HVAM is only a 9. So what is it that you're asking for? Songs like this cannot fill the 10-13 gap. Only a handful of stepcharts in DDR can, but they still aren't good charts. The 10s in DDR have 8th runs instead of 16ths because of their speed, but really what's the difference? There is none. None at all.
If you don't like the charts, fine, just don't play at all, but I think they're a shit ton funner than the ones in DDR. If that means i'm a newb, fine, whatever, but I'll defend charts like Euphoria expert until you show me a game that does it better. And that game isn't DDR, that's for sure. |
First, point out where I said 16th note runs are always the devil and should never happen. Look, if you don't know what could fill that gap you have no imagination. A song can use 16th notes and be a 12 or 13 without a gratuitous run thrown in the middle for virtually no reason -- it's all about their placement and rhythmic use. ITG has no sense of this. If you want, I can make something like this, I have no problem showing you what I mean.
and RnP IS special. It's more than just "crossovers" -- it's very, very pivot heavy and uses a lot of advanced technique. If you don't know it already, sorry, I'm not going to open a school for DDR simfiles.
Besides, if you actually like Euphoria, there's very little help for you anyway. |
Elaborate on why Euphoria is a bad chart, and why your charts are awesome. Please.
Give examples of what can be done to make songs conceivably difficult enough to be 12s aside from what ITG has done, including but not limited to what you see in !, Determinator, Go 60 Go, HOTN, Bloodrush, and Euphoria. |
Hardcore of the North is actually decent, so I'll give you that one. Have not played Go 60 Go or Bloodrush or !, as I have not played much ITG2 -- I have played it, but I haven't played those particular songs, so it's not fair for me to say anything regarding them.
However, Determinator is crap, as is Euphoria, and for the same reason: they should have never been 12s. Contrary to what you may have heard, a song needs certain elements to become a 12, and if they're just following ONE PART of a song to make it that high (Determinator) or if they're basically just making stuff up/following breaks in a synth that aren't actually notes (Euphoria) then it's BS. Euphoria follows non-musical sounds, which is why it's not a 12 and never should have been. If I made a chart for Euphoria it would be every bit of a hard 9 or easy 10.
I do know mostly all of ITG1, however, so if you want examples as to why those are bad, please, do, ask.
And, I have to go right now for dinner, so don't expect another reply from me for a bit. |
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lolinternet
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Location: Woodhaven, MI |
| 69. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ~^-^~ wrote: | | lolinternet wrote: | | ~^-^~ wrote: | | lolinternet wrote: |
So what am I missing? What's so interesting about HVAM, Exotic Ethnic, and Rhythm and Police? Honestly I don't see how sims like these are anywhere near the quality of ITG 9s. They are just 8th runs with crossovers. WOW SO AWESOME!!1
And if you don't want 16th note runs in songs, then what do you expect Roxor to do with the 10-13 difficulty songs? You said you'd rather have songs like HVAM etc, but HVAM is only a 9. So what is it that you're asking for? Songs like this cannot fill the 10-13 gap. Only a handful of stepcharts in DDR can, but they still aren't good charts. The 10s in DDR have 8th runs instead of 16ths because of their speed, but really what's the difference? There is none. None at all.
If you don't like the charts, fine, just don't play at all, but I think they're a shit ton funner than the ones in DDR. If that means i'm a newb, fine, whatever, but I'll defend charts like Euphoria expert until you show me a game that does it better. And that game isn't DDR, that's for sure. |
First, point out where I said 16th note runs are always the devil and should never happen. Look, if you don't know what could fill that gap you have no imagination. A song can use 16th notes and be a 12 or 13 without a gratuitous run thrown in the middle for virtually no reason -- it's all about their placement and rhythmic use. ITG has no sense of this. If you want, I can make something like this, I have no problem showing you what I mean.
and RnP IS special. It's more than just "crossovers" -- it's very, very pivot heavy and uses a lot of advanced technique. If you don't know it already, sorry, I'm not going to open a school for DDR simfiles.
Besides, if you actually like Euphoria, there's very little help for you anyway. |
Elaborate on why Euphoria is a bad chart, and why your charts are awesome. Please.
Give examples of what can be done to make songs conceivably difficult enough to be 12s aside from what ITG has done, including but not limited to what you see in !, Determinator, Go 60 Go, HOTN, Bloodrush, and Euphoria. |
Hardcore of the North is actually decent, so I'll give you that one. Have not played Go 60 Go or Bloodrush or !, as I have not played much ITG2 -- I have played it, but I haven't played those particular songs, so it's not fair for me to say anything regarding them.
However, Determinator is crap, as is Euphoria, and for the same reason: they should have never been 12s. Contrary to what you may have heard, a song needs certain elements to become a 12, and if they're just following ONE PART of a song to make it that high (Determinator) or if they're basically just making stuff up/following breaks in a synth that aren't actually notes (Euphoria) then it's BS. Euphoria follows non-musical sounds, which is why it's not a 12 and never should have been. If I made a chart for Euphoria it would be every bit of a hard 9 or easy 10.
I do know mostly all of ITG1, however, so if you want examples as to why those are bad, please, do, ask. |
How is Euphoria not a 12? Do you mean the song does not fit with steps that difficult at all? That is entirely subjective, as is defining what is musical and what isn't in a song that is entirely synth. If you're saying that it's not difficult enough to be a 12, then you're a huge idiot. Same with Determinator.
That aside I think Euphoria is a great chart that fits the song well. The 32nd bursts fit, as do the 64ths in the slowdown. Determinator is not awesome by any measure, but the 24th runs in the song are, to me, fairly innovative and original, and I can respect that.
Also, ITG2 is definitely ITG's better half. I suggest you go through most of the expert charts before you shit on it much more. |
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lildrchris25
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Houston, TX |
| 70. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| lolinternet wrote: | | lildrchris25 wrote: | | if you hate the stepcharts, try edits. maybe you can come up with something that you think is good, and you would enjoy playing itg at the arcade. |
Yeah, this is totally true. You could play all of your edits on a dedicab. It seriously doesn't get much better than that. |
um, not sure to take that as an insult or complement, but i'll take it as an insult.
get stepmania, get the itg simfiles, and make edits, and play them. and enjoy them.
all i've seen from this thread is argument over argument about itg and nothing to do with ddr revival.
how about this. to those who are looking for a new ddr arcade mix, FORGET IT. it isn't coming, no matter how much we talk about it.
now can we not talk about this anymore? and for the itg debates and crap, why not just take that to the itg forum, and create a thread on how to make itg better or something like that.
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lolinternet
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
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| 71. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| lildrchris25 wrote: | | lolinternet wrote: | | lildrchris25 wrote: | | if you hate the stepcharts, try edits. maybe you can come up with something that you think is good, and you would enjoy playing itg at the arcade. |
Yeah, this is totally true. You could play all of your edits on a dedicab. It seriously doesn't get much better than that. |
um, not sure to take that as an insult or complement, but i'll take it as an insult.
get stepmania, get the itg simfiles, and make edits, and play them. and enjoy them. |
You know, I figured playing on brand new pads/a bright crisp new display was a good thing. Guess I was wrong. |
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Joel Stud?!
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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| 72. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Edits are a moot point. You can take any song you like and put steps to it. You have stepmania, and some ddr machines with edit capabilities. Besides, most of ITG's (I haven't played 2 yet, so I won't state on that) music is crap. SOme of it is good as I said before, but most of it is poorly done trance or noise like pandy and vertex.... that's all i have to say! |
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lolinternet
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| 73. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Braintrust Jiggy â¶â wrote: | | Edits are a moot point. You can take any song you like and put steps to it. You have stepmania, and some ddr machines with edit capabilities. Besides, most of ITG's (I haven't played 2 yet, so I won't state on that) music is crap. SOme of it is good as I said before, but most of it is poorly done trance or noise like pandy and vertex.... that's all i have to say! |
The music of course is subjective, but can you really say that it's such a bad thing that many of the songs were created specifically with stepcharts in mind? Does that not make for better steps than just putting random streams to any random song?
I wouldn't be caught dead actually listening to ITG/ITG2 music but I think they're much better for charts than the crap in most DDR mixes. |
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NSMH
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Location: San Diego |
| 74. Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| lolinternet wrote: | | Braintrust Jiggy â¶â wrote: | | Edits are a moot point. You can take any song you like and put steps to it. You have stepmania, and some ddr machines with edit capabilities. Besides, most of ITG's (I haven't played 2 yet, so I won't state on that) music is crap. SOme of it is good as I said before, but most of it is poorly done trance or noise like pandy and vertex.... that's all i have to say! |
The music of course is subjective, but can you really say that it's such a bad thing that many of the songs were created specifically with stepcharts in mind? Does that not make for better steps than just putting random streams to any random song?
I wouldn't be caught dead actually listening to ITG/ITG2 music but I think they're much better for charts than the crap in most DDR mixes. |
Exactly. I have always found ITG's charts to be really fun (with a few exceptions). DDR is fun for like a few months before you start getting tired of the random-buttocks 8th notes put into about 85% of the heavy charts.
The only problem with ITG, however, is that the hard and expert charts are usually very similar, except majorly toned down in hard. Other than that, ITG2's charts are amazing. I love almost every single one of them.
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thisismyoldusername:P
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Liquid Zero
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003
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| 76. Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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ITG is more fun when dealing with unique stepcharts that are more in tune to the rhythm of the music. The problem is, the stepcharts get repetitive.
DDR has better music, I think. That's probably what keeps me coming back to it. Their stepcharts are still fun, too. But I must admit, ITG has pulled some charts that can't touch any that are in DDR...but that certain ITG music may not be as catchy.
So, yeah, depending on how I want to enjoy myself depends on which I would wanna play at the time.
...however, I haven't played ITG2. I was basing on ITG1.
Last edited by Liquid Zero on Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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thisismyoldusername:P
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PA System
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| 78. Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I think ITG is better solely on just the new song aspect. I mean yeah there is a new interface and mods, but just new music makes me want to play it. Most stepcharts I think are good (easier and harder). I think that Don't Promise Me stepchart is good and Pandy expert is good. Some that I don't think that are good: Euphoria, and Oasis.
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Liquid Zero
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| 79. Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| supremzz wrote: | | Liquid Zero wrote: | | But I must admit, ITG has pulled some charts that can't touch any that are in DDR |
When will people realize you don't NEED 32nd notes for a stepchart to be "better" than another???  DDR has good stepcharts and you can't say ITG is better because of their different style. Konami only used 32nd's like twice... |
What the hell...are you talking about? It was like you didn't even read my post.
No one even said that 32nd notes makes or breaks a stepchart.
Plus, I never even said that ITG was better. I was pointing out the strengths of both. (Even though I editted that post today, it was just to clear up my opinion I stated yesterday on some of ITG's music not being as catchy in comparison. So I still don't know what you're talking about.) Currently, I enjoy both equally.
And furthermore, I said that DDR had fun stepcharts to begin with. Even before I editted it. So why on earth did you go on this little tangent about 32nd notes, and me thinking ITG is better because of style?
For goodness sake, man...read thoroughly.
Last edited by Liquid Zero on Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:11 pm, edited 3 times in total |
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