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Lost_Sage
Trick Member
Joined: 12 May 2002
Location: Atherton, CA -- New York, NY |
20.  Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimone tf wrote: | Thanks for that. Very informative and not bias at all. (which is good because atm we still don't know who's in the wrong, strictly speaking, until the legal system sorts that out for us)
NOW! I'd like to see a similar run down of the Konami vs Andamiro case and how these two cases differ in allegations. That'd be interesting...
Also, if this gets all the way to the Jury making a decision is there any way it can be taken further or appealed? |
Kimone: Thanks for the kind words about the article. Haven't had a chance to review the Konami/Andamiro stuff. Also, they settled (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that), so we likely wouldn't have the benefit of all the discovery and trial presentation that looks like will be happening in the Konami/Roxor/Mad Catz case.
Like virtually all of civil litigation, the case can be appealed. Parties must, of course, make the appropriate objections at the trial level -- called "preserving the issues for appeal." That gets the supposed mistake into the record.
(You can think of what mistakes might fall into this category: evidence gets to the jury that shouldn't, or vice versa. The judge wrongfully denies a motion like one for summary judgment. The judge gives the wrong instructions to the jury before deliberation.)
The record is important because an appeal is a review of the trial record -- it's NOT Factfinding Mission Round 2. Appeal is essentially two components: briefs, oral arguments, that's it. The reviewing court examines whether the trial court, given the facts presented in front of it, got the law right, or if it got the law wrong, did it do so in a way that affected the outcome.
Apart from appeal, there are other post-trial motions that have the potential to set aside the verdict or essentially hit the reset button on the case. I'll bring them up if and when they're made in the current case.
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Cutriss
Staff Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 21. Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Lost_Sage wrote: | | Title frenzy is a reader phenomenon with which all authors eventually, to keep themselves sane, must learn to live. (I could tell you how many times as a college journalist my title ideas were nixed, but we don't have all night to count.) People will read whatever intent they want to into the title without seriously examining the content -- and sadly, analogous reasoning justifies far worse prejudice in this world. |
Yep, dead on. You have to handle both having a title that draws interest (often called "sensationalism") and having a title that most accurately reflects what's going on. Plus you have a space limitation.
Journalism was a fun class. It just wasn't a very good career path for me. 
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The Game II
Contributor
Joined: 06 Mar 2002
Location: Long Beach or Glendale, CA |
| 22. Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Having been a part of the journalism business for 10 years, I'll say that the title is fine. If you call it down the line, you'll notice that the title speaks for what is happening and not the hopes of the Web site.
But hey, let's be gracious to this Web site and to Lost Sage for covering the situation between the companies.
--GCII
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gamerdude1212
Trick Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2002
Location: PA/AZ |
| 23. Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Lost Sage thank you for your explanation of the case thus far, but I have a question. In your respective opinion where do you see this case going over the next 4 months, and do you think Roxor has any real shot at this?
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FOXX aka C-Unit
Trick Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, CA SOUTHBAY REPRESENT! |
| 24. Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: Thank you. |
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Thank you, it is so refreshing to have an intelligent factual analysis beyond "zOMG guyz k0n4m1 are being j3rks and I'm gunna boycott them if they hurt r0x0r" or "ITG sux b/c there are hands and mines and no naoki so I hope Konami takes them to the cleaners"
I get a sinking feeling that no matter which side loses, dance gaming is going to suffer as far as I'm concerned because I love both companies' games. I'll be sad if there is no more ITG should Konami find a way to shut Roxor down. I'll be sad if DDR doesn't make it to the states anymore because Konami is sore about losing or just sick of the whole ordeal. *sigh*
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j²
Basic Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Location: s.cali |
| 25. Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Thank you. |
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| f0xtr0t wrote: | | I get a sinking feeling that no matter which side loses, dance gaming is going to suffer as far as I'm concerned because I love both companies' games. I'll be sad if there is no more ITG should Konami find a way to shut Roxor down. I'll be sad if DDR doesn't make it to the states anymore because Konami is sore about losing or just sick of the whole ordeal. *sigh* |
should konami lose, they're not going to stop production here. there's just too much money to make here. besides, if anything, konami losing might be a good thing. it'll force them to be more competitive and influence them to improve or innovate their products.. |
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Lost_Sage
Trick Member
Joined: 12 May 2002
Location: Atherton, CA -- New York, NY |
| 26. Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| gamerdude1212 wrote: | | Lost Sage thank you for your explanation of the case thus far, but I have a question. In your respective opinion where do you see this case going over the next 4 months, and do you think Roxor has any real shot at this? |
Gamerdude: Thanks for your message. Hard to say (I know that's a cop-out of an answer, but it's perhaps the most accurate). I expect both parties to cooperate with each other during discovery, so I don't see any delays there. Jury selection isn't likely to be a mess - honestly, how many dance gamers will be in that jury pool? Trial days are set with specific time goals in mind, so likewise, no indication that will drag on. Nor do I expect deliberations, if it gets that far, to take much time. Absent a settlement, we'll likely have some sort of decision in at least half a year.
Roxor's chances for success? Well, I think all of Konami's claims and most of Roxor's counterclaims can fairly be disputed. But I'm always wary about unfair competition and prospective interference claims, especially where, as you all know, any "proof" would be weird for either side given the unusual legal standing (re: the later mixes arguably illegal) Konami's main "competing' products have in the US!
Still, any good lawyer will wait to see what discovery dregs up. Discovery = factfinding. Now Roxor and MadCatz have to open their books -- and Konami its own for the counterclaims -- and we'll build a record and see exactly who did what badly. So to make an absolute pronouncement of who wins before that happens would be premature.
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Lost_Sage
Trick Member
Joined: 12 May 2002
Location: Atherton, CA -- New York, NY |
| 27. Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Thank you. |
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| f0xtr0t wrote: | Thank you, it is so refreshing to have an intelligent factual analysis beyond "zOMG guyz k0n4m1 are being j3rks and I'm gunna boycott them if they hurt r0x0r" or "ITG sux b/c there are hands and mines and no naoki so I hope Konami takes them to the cleaners"
I get a sinking feeling that no matter which side loses, dance gaming is going to suffer as far as I'm concerned because I love both companies' games. I'll be sad if there is no more ITG should Konami find a way to shut Roxor down. I'll be sad if DDR doesn't make it to the states anymore because Konami is sore about losing or just sick of the whole ordeal. *sigh* |
Foxtrot: Thanks for the kind words. I agree that dance gaming will take a little hit -- it is now, just look at the board anecdotes and general mindsets -- from the suit. But all new technologies go through this dispute -- how do you protect the initial innovator without discouraging further innovation that will be beneficial in the long run? That debate is at the very core of intellectual property law.
The tech will survive in the long run -- it's too good and too useful not to. J2's comments address exactly that point. Who the players are -- well, we'll see -- but I am confident there will be multiple ones.
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Char
Trick Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2004
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| 28. Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Lost_Sage wrote: | | especially where, as you all know, any "proof" would be weird for either side given the unusual legal standing (re: the later mixes arguably illegal) Konami's main "competing' products have in the US! |
This is something I picked up on early on, not for cheerleading purposes or to wave a particular company's flag, but I think this will be an interesting point. DDR forums frequently see the phrase "All DDR machines in the US are illegal!", and supposedly Konami is not happy with Bemani leaving Japan and we're lucky to get DDREX and blah blah blah. So what happens now that said "Illegal" machines are being touted as the competition Roxor's unfairly competing with?
Of course, this could be a moot point which is not relevant, notmentioned at all or entirely negated during the trial, I just thought it was interesting.
Also, echoing the love for the interpretation here, too. I'm absolutely sick of reading "An analysis of the Konami Roxor case" by someone who's found out what the various claims mean in English then posted an article saying "3) Konami claim ITG infringes on DDR... well this is obvious this one goes to Konami" or other such waffle. Both your knowledge and your impartiality are appreciated. |
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Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal |
| 29. Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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I believe they turn a blind eye to the importing of their machines, as it gives them free advertising for their home releases of the DDR franchise.
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gameboyguy13
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Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Location: The other side of that green bridge, yeah! |
| 30. Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think they also turn a blind eye because it would mean paying a lot more for licensing costs. Right now the music is only licensed for Japan. It might mean that they have to pay Toshiba EMI more money since it's being used etc. in North America and Europe as well.
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GOLI, translated, wrote: Oh, and to you DDR players who mailed NAOKI and were all, "Make a 400 BPM song! Please!" You don't want to be human anymore, do you? |
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zaphod
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Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Location: Hayward, CA |
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Be_Without_You
Trick Member
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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| 32. Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| No More Mister Nice guy thanks for Explains to Members |
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Synaesthesia
Trick Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Crushing all deceivers, smashing non-believers |
| 33. Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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You are a failure of a human being.
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0rion
Trick Member
Joined: 02 May 2005
Location: Kirby will explain it to you. |
| 34. Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Man, I got a whiplash from your thread bump.
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There's a little yellow bird on my avatar. (Brawl FC: 4640-1720-6690)
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Da Bar
Trick Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: in ur bowlz, flowerin' my Viacom |
| 35. Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: |
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