Update on Konami v. Roxor

Wolfman Jake · Trick Member Joined: 13 Sep 2002

It's laughable that you can't even see where Super Mario Bros. is about the worst analogy you could make to the Konami vs. Roxor situation. Yes, Super Mario Bros. is a 2-D platformer. Yes, there are thousands of others, and yes a lot of them are crap. How many of them are played in exactly the same style as Super Mario Bros., however? Well, let's see...there's Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japanese), Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World...see the problem? ITG is played, for all intents and purposes, EXACTLY like DDR, but it is NOT Konami's DDR. To dismantel Konami's patents on DDR's gameplay mechanics means that EVERYONE could try to make a game that plays exactly like DDR AND ITG. It would bring a degree of staleness to the entire genre, an extremely niche genre at that. However, there are so many different executions and takes on the "2D platformer" type of game, it's staggering. People can tell the difference between Super Mario Bros. and Yo Noid! A lot of people cannot not tell the difference between DDR and ITG as it is, and more DDR clones will only make it WORSE. Your reasoning is flawed, and you've only showcased your ignorance and lack of critical thought, as you have said, "twice now." Try again.

BTW, Super Mario Bros. may have been the first truly great 2-D platformer, but it was in no way, shape, or form the progenitor of the entire genre. Sorry.
_________________

Wolfman Jake

IHYD.Tiza · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Location: Escondido, CA

Wolfman Jake · Trick Member Joined: 13 Sep 2002

Tiza, not even back in the days of Sonic the Hedgehog 1 did people confuse it for Super Mario Bros. or any other game or franchise. Hell, schoolyards were all abuzz about which mascot was "cooler." Lots of people still can't even tell the difference between DDR and ITG (and PUMP too) even when you explain it to them, so how do you think they'll react to another brand X DDR clone? 2D platformers are just a bad way to go if you want to question consumer ignorance in the matter of the dance game genre.

Suffice it to say, Sonic 1 was also pretty distinct from Mario from the get go too. Sonic's gameplay premise is based upon speed. Rings serve as your life meter; coins never did that in SMB. Sonic featured special bonus stages where to goal was to collect one of six special items needed to achieve the alternate (read good) ending of the game. SMB didn't have alternate endings until what, Super Mario 64? The things that Sonic and Mario shared in common were fluf like Invincibility powerups, and "running to the right" to complete a stage, etc. If Sonic shot fireballs, or flew around with a bright yellow cape, or a raccoon's tail, you might have been on to something.

The point is, Tiza, that some opinions are better thought out than others, and sometimes you just can't be coy about those things. You have to admit that the amount of coddling being promoted in our society now adays has reached a ridiculous proportion. In order to spare peoples feelings, we have to pretend as if anyone's opinion is somehow respectable or should be given consideration, and so on. It's just not realistic. People come up with BAD ideas a lot, and when you know someone has a bad idea and you don't tell them so, bad things often happen. True, little bad can come of idle chatter on messageboard, but it's never a bad idea to keep one's self in form. Yes, you can be civil about the matter, and I have tried to be for the most part in responding to some silly ideas in this thread, but [] was just being adversarial about the whole matter, right down to his smug attempt to say "the pot calling the kettle black" at the end of his post. Even so, I still think I've kept a reasonable level of civility in my response. For the record, I've not called or implied anyone here is "stupid." I ask you not to put words into my posts, Tiza. I have been implying that people have been thoughtless in what they propose and post here, though. Even the most brilliant minds can be completely thoughtless at times. The thread hasn't degraded, thankfully, into a shouting match of cursing and 3rd-grade name-calling, not yet at least.
_________________

Wolfman Jake

IHYD.Tiza · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Location: Escondido, CA

VxJasonxV · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:52 am Post subject:

Tomo_kun · Trick Member Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Location: SE-WI.

zaphod · Trick Member Joined: 23 Jan 2002 Location: Hayward, CA

I've had the stepchart a long time. they just STUCK a 3 panel hit right in the middle of a nasty run of jumps!
_________________

Stick Fighter Revolution Turbo Mega Alpha +4 Ned

Kyrandian · Trick Member Joined: 24 Mar 2002 Location: Portland, OR

Uh La La La was the only song added in DS 1.5, and was obviously made by someone who had no idea what they were doing whatsoever. I think it's pretty safe to assume that the hand was put there by accident when trying to record jumps, but no one bothered to give the stepchart a second look. It's funny that the song starts by fading in and ends by fading out right in middle of the second verse. This song wins the prize for worst official stepchart, song cut, and banner (they used Dub I Dub's instead of bothering to create a new one) ever created.

critikal · Trick Member Joined: 03 Apr 2005

Thomas Hobbes · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject:

VxJasonxV · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject:

DDRNemesis · Trick Member Joined: 10 Jun 2004 Location: Bryan, OH

Even if it was a mistake it proves that hands were in DDR first. Plus in edit mode in 1st mix and 2nd remix you could use 3 arrows at a time too.
_________________

I'm an affiliate for Play-Asia, click on banner for all of your BEMANI needs!!!

â · Trick Member Joined: 25 Jan 2002

DJTyrant · Maniac Member Joined: 25 Jan 2002 Location: Ventura, CA

Alone in the Dark was more the birthplace of the horror genere than Resident Evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_horror
_________________

OLR!|Facebook | LiveJournal | Berrorth - 80 NE/Rogue | YouTube

â · Trick Member Joined: 25 Jan 2002

Thomas Hobbes · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject:

Like I said previously, they lose free advertisements for their DDR franchise, especially their home version releases which come out A LOT here.
_________________

"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."

| Pics | Play-Asia |

â · Trick Member Joined: 25 Jan 2002

Wolfman Jake · Trick Member Joined: 13 Sep 2002

[], if you want to believe that I've resorted to name-calling, then go ahead. I've already stated it's far from the case in my response to Tiza. Though, if you want to get snippy, your "pot calling the kettle black" would be considered a type of logical fallacy called "ad hominem." Since that's NOT what I want going on, lets set that aside now.

For whatever reason, you seem to be unwilling or unable to see where the dance game genre, and espeicially when we are talking about DDR's specific gameplay mechanics which Roxor cloned to make ITG, is a much more special case than most other videogame genres, and a comparison between it and most anything else out there in terms of public awareness is terribly sloppy. Puzzle games? If you can't tell Tetris apart from anything else in the genre, that's SAD. About the only thing most puzzle games have in common is match and eliminate pieces routine. Only Tetris gives you the trademark tetrids and makes you eliminate a complete horizontal line of blocks. No one is going to mistake it for Puyo Puyo, or Columns, or Dr. Mario, etc. The problem with shooters and fighters? No appeal to the outsiders. If you play those games, you KNOW what the differences are. Otherwise, you don't play the games, and it doesn't matter. In otherwords, they are genres that preach to the choir; they are FOR videogamers and not parents, outsiders, non-gamers, etc. DDR has brought something unique to the public, a game that promotes exercise (or at least the first one to become a cult success). It's a game that many people outside the videogame community have now become aware of and quite interested in, and the "DDR" name is in their heads (to Konami's delight), but the name is obviously generic to them, since we already KNOW people are confusing DDR and ITG. It's like calling a copy machine a "Xerox," or a facial tissue a "Cleanex." They are using the brand name but do not necessarily associate it with brand loyalty. These people are likely to pick up anything that LOOKS like DDR and probably not even know it's NOT specifically DDR. Roxor is pretty damned well aware of ALL of this, I can assure you, which is why they figured they could take a chunk out of DDR's pie. The success of ITG does not depend on the approval of the hardcore players who have been playing DDR for years. It depends on basically "confusing" casual players into thinking it's the same thing, so why not? If Roxor wins this case, they'll probably get that chance. But, it will open a Pandora's box of other clones, which will try to do the exact same thing Roxor is, and what is actually going to distinguish ITG from anything else? Expert? Casucal gamers couldn't care less. They'll pick up whatever has some songs they recognize or like, or who has the prettier box, or the cheaper price, or whatever the salesperson (in the hopes of getting rid of a stock of games that aren't moving) tells them, or maybe just the first one they find. Yeah, people use heuristics that are THAT poor when making purchasing choices. If you would please take a few moments to mull this over, [], and realize that this isn't about intellectual dickswing getting, you'll see I have a very strong point, which I try to back up with some thoughtful analysis.
_________________

Wolfman Jake