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BLueSS~
Trick Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Location: Washington |
80.  Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| 2007? Argh. I really hate how long our legal processes take. |
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inuyashakillsbill
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Location: TEXAS |
| 81. Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Well i don't really care who wins as long as they keep making the games.
i know i havent posted many comments but only because many people share my opinion and the only thing i can come up is
I concur |
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The legend of ZAKU 0079
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Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: somewhere in New York City bringing glory to Zeon |
| 82. Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bluesweatshirt wrote: | | 2007? Argh. I really hate how long our legal processes take. |
Well look on the brighter side, this is enough time for Konami and Roxor to reach a settlement and thus the claims will be rescinded. Unfortunately, since Konami is out for blood in the form of monetary damages and is unwilling to accept any voluntary compensation from Roxor from what I hear, that court date might still be on.
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Edible Bondage Tape
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Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Location: Kerri |
| 83. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:08 am Post subject: |
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where have you heard that klonami wouldnt accept a settalemtna nd voulentary compensation
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xbskid
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Joined: 06 Sep 2004
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| 84. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| DCUJer wrote: | | To give you an example of this would be to think about people doing different types of things to their cars; like replace them with non-stock parts. The parts don't change how the car works but it does effect how the car behaves. For years this practice was frowned upon by car companies and they would refuse any type of warranty work on a modified car due to the presence of something that changed the characteristics of the car. The car companies ultimatly lost this battle when taken to court. They were told that as long as a non-stock part wasn't the cause for the issue that required the work. However while it is legal to upgrade your own car i believe it would be entirely illegal for a company to take a make of car, upgrade it, rebrand it, then sell it for a profit without the car makers consent. |
RUF is a company that does this, and I believe it was previously mentioned in the thread. What RUF does is essentially rent Porsche manufacturing plants, build their cars with a combination of Porsche parts and their own (I think. Not sure what they use, exactly), and then brand those cars with RUF tags. They have full permission from Porsche to do this.
| Encrusted Broken Toy wrote: | | actualy DJ potatoe kept tellingkonami how infrenging ITG was untill they decided to go look and sue roxor and as much as DJ potatoe keps saying he wont get sued its only because he wont ever make neough money to be WORTH sueing i can guarentee if he isnt paying massive royaltiues to konami and he makes any real money he will get buried under a mountain of red tape |
The fun part about this is that there is absolutely no facts in this quote to back up its accusation. Unless you people can prove to me and everyone else that DJ Potatoe actually instigated the lawsuits, then what you say is automatically invalid and should be ignored. Something like this cannot be easily proved anyway and could very well be a blatant lie.
| AceJay wrote: |
Yeah, I was wondering, what's up with them, are they just modding Porsches?
And what about that Saleen Mustang? |
Like I said before, RUF builds their cars from scratch with Porsche parts and their own; they don't modify existing Porsches, which I believe is the case with Saleen and Ford, just as Shelby had years before. Saleen takes existing Ford cars and modifies them, although Saleen does have a couple of its own cars. |
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Cutriss
Staff Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 85. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Reenee wrote: | | Can we also seriously have a deterrent of stupid posts? 2 (3?) threads and there's continuation of them. Please, any moderator/admin, do something. |
And how intelligent of a discussion did you expect to see in this matter? Y'know...in an Internet forum where the average user age is well under both yours and mine, and there is no fear of immediate reprisal for statements made.
Besides - you've been around long enough to know that no matter how much pre-emptive yelling we do, the people dumb enough to post stupid crap are also dumb enough to not read our instructions beforehand.
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Kimone tf
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Joined: 26 Aug 2002
Location: Adelaide, Australia |
| 86. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:47 am Post subject: hmmmmm |
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Two things jumped out at me when I read the three documents that DDR Freak linked to in their entirity.
1. Roxor have demand a trial by jury. (...all this talk about being a judge and saying stupid crap is kinda pointless...) At the end of the day it's a group of random people (not nessicarity gamers) that'll decide Roxors fate. People that are OF AGE, with common sense, opinions of their own and feelings for the underdog. In my uneducated opinion Roxor seem to actually think they can win this if they're asking for a jury.
2. Roxor admitted to making upgrade kits to upgrade dance machines to their game. DDR happens to be one of those machines. There's heaps of dance machines out there that arn't DDR. OMG *remembers first dance machine to come to my town* LET'S DANCE!@!!! *shakes head* Anyway...I haven't investigated how possible it'd be to upgrade one of these non-DDR dance machines to ITG but if Roxor could do that it'd go a long way towards their defence. Konami wouldn't be able to say that Roxor have specifically targeted them.
Just can't get out of my mind that Konami have weakened their complaint by letting so many other dance machines be made and new versions made without doing anything. |
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Original Z
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Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Location: NEW YAWK->Japan |
| 87. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Maybe Roxor is hoping that they'll get some ITG fans in the jury trial. Hah.
I still find it surprising how Konami hasn't (to my knowledge) gone after EZ2DJ, although it's quite unique now in the earlier mixes it was like the same think as 5k Beatmania plus a foot pedal.
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VxJasonxV
Maniac Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Castle Rock, CO |
| 88. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:14 am Post subject: Re: hmmmmm |
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| Kimone tf wrote: | | 1. Roxor have demand a trial by jury. (...all this talk about being a judge and saying stupid crap is kinda pointless...) At the end of the day it's a group of random people (not nessicarity gamers) that'll decide Roxors fate. People that are OF AGE, with common sense, opinions of their own and feelings for the underdog. In my uneducated opinion Roxor seem to actually think they can win this if they're asking for a jury. |
I wouldn't make that claim yet.
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Cutriss
Staff Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 89. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: Re: hmmmmm |
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| Kimone tf wrote: | | Anyway...I haven't investigated how possible it'd be to upgrade one of these non-DDR dance machines to ITG but if Roxor could do that it'd go a long way towards their defence. Konami wouldn't be able to say that Roxor have specifically targeted them. |
This doesn't really help your point a *whole* lot, but I seem to recall hearing that someone (Caffy?) put ITG1 in a Dance Maniax cabinet.
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DJTyrant
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Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Location: Ventura, CA |
| 90. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Yeah Caffy had (has?) a picture of it on his site somewhere.
Anyways, I wish the best of luck to both parties, that they both settle quickly and that we can keep playing good dance games  .
Also I highly doubt that any ITG fans will be on the jury, Konami's lawyers will throw them out first thing. And I'm almost certain that they'll be asking "Have you ever played DDR/ITG?" "Are you a fan of ITG?" etc. In the jury screening process.
Should be interesting if it really gets to court.
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sirphes
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Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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| 91. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| dieKatze88 wrote: | | Reenee wrote: | | NeonFM has already consulted with Konami and confirmed they are in the clear. |
Which is probably why Konami is coming after Roxor with the banhammer. Because they didnt call up Konami and say "Hey we would like to make a new product that is EXACTLY LIKE YOUR PRODUCT and we might want to talk about it before we do anything"
NeonFM had the forward to think ahead a little and do that. RoXor Games may not have. |
You really had to be following the development of ITG for a while, but, on roxor's forum before the game came out, their was a legal thread in which we found out roxor *did* get the go-ahead from Konami.
This makes me laugh a little to find out that NeonFM did the exact same thing, thinking that OF COURSE they won't get sued now, KONAMI said it's OKAY!
Really, no matter who said it way back when, it doesn't matter who said it was a-OK way back when: if it will benefit them at any given time to sue, then they will sue. |
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Cutriss
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 92. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| sirphes wrote: | | You really had to be following the development of ITG for a while, but, on roxor's forum before the game came out, their was a legal thread in which we found out roxor *did* get the go-ahead from Konami. |
I've seen people referring to this before, but every time I've seen it, it was always a quote that went something along the lines of "We've already made sure that everything is good from a legal standpoint." Nothing to my knowledge has been stated that specifically mentions a business relationship between Konami and Roxor.
Of course, NeonFM supposedly has the go-ahead from Konami, but seeing as how I haven't seen an official press release or anything mentioning a business agreement between the two parties, as far as I'm concerned, there isn't anything there either.
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DJTyrant
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Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Location: Ventura, CA |
| 93. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: |
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From what I heard Roxor offered Konami a cut of the profits of ITG and Konami brushed it off like they were nothing.
Now someone wants a piece of the pie.
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snickers1127â¶â
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Redding/Stockton, CA |
| 94. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:22 am Post subject: |
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interesting....
I hate how this is taking forever, but I guess that's how the legal system is. 
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 95. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| DJTyrant wrote: | From what I heard Roxor offered Konami a cut of the profits of ITG and Konami brushed it off like they were nothing.
Now someone wants a piece of the pie. |
If that is true, and like many other statements concerning the development of ITG, it's either unsubstantiated or a lie (I find it amazing that people keep brushing off the fact that Roxor HAS lied to us from the beginning), then the situation is more like this: Konami said no, we're not just going to will-nilly grant you a license to make a game pretty much exactly like ours for profit. Then Roxor said, ok, we'll do it anyway. In other words, Roxor KNEW that they needed Konami's license and when they didn't get it, they decided they would just break patent law and make their game anyway. Uh huh... It's not so much that Konami wants a piece of the pie as Roxor got caught with its had in Konami's cookie jar after Konami told them "no sweets right now." It's more comforting to think that Roxor was just naive and thought they didn't have to get Konami's permission in the first place (i.e. they never asked and hoped to just slip under the radar).
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diddrstrait
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 96. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| you know, I was going to stay out of this thread, but Wolfman you can't make the accusation that Roxor has been lying to the public since day one. Not you or anyone else outside of Roxor knows what's been going on behind closed doors, so your accusation has about as much truth to it as the rumors you're trying to shoot down. At the moment it's 100% speculation, just like everything else in the thread. |
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 97. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Syncognition, what do you call it when Roxor at first says that "everything is taken care of legally" and then Konami slaps them with this lawsuit? It's a lie, or it's terrible ignorance.
Consider this. Why would Roxor be so tight-lipped about any specifics or even generalities about Konami's stance on using their DDR cabinets (and their patented gameplay mechanics) unless they KNEW they were in a very volatile situation legally? "Everything is taken care of legally" is a baldfaced lie even if their misguided plan all along was to engage Konami in a lawsuit. That's not "taken care of" at all, since the outcome of this legal battle is in no way secured for Roxor, period, no matter how good or bad anyone thinks their position is. At the very best, and again this is IF they had planned a legal confrontation with Konami, it is a calculated risk, and one I obviously do not believe was very wise of Roxor to take. If you are still squeamish about calling them out on this lie, think of it as an obvious lie of omission. Roxor simply has never been straight with us about developing and selling ITG, and it goes beyond normal business discretion. They've been playing with fire all along, and now they might get burned quite thouroughly by Konami, but the whole time Roxor has been acting as if they were at no risk. Lies do not make people "bad" however, but it makes Roxor far from trustworthy, to the point that it is now hard to know what to believe from them.
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Wolfman Jake
Last edited by Wolfman Jake on Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total |
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DJTyrant
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Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Location: Ventura, CA |
| 98. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Syncognition, what do you call it when Roxor at first says that "everything is taken care of legally" and then Konami slaps them with this lawsuit? It's a lie, or it's terrible ignorance. |
I call it Konami changing their mind (speculation, just like EVERYTHING in this thread).
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Wolfman Jake
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| 99. Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| DJTyrant wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Syncognition, what do you call it when Roxor at first says that "everything is taken care of legally" and then Konami slaps them with this lawsuit? It's a lie, or it's terrible ignorance. |
I call it Konami changing their mind (speculation, just like EVERYTHING in this thread). |
Konami changing their mind about what? Konami never gave Roxor permission. The only two scenarios that we have are "Roxor never asked and thought they'd get away with it (or fight a lawsuit should once surface)" or that "Roxor did ask, Konami said NO, and Roxor made ITG anyway." What on earth could Konami have changed their minds about, huh? If they had said YES and taken a share of the profits from ITG, then obviously Konami would be happy to get some money from them, etc. etc. etc., and it would be rather strange for Konami to try and levy patent infringement against Roxor when there might exist an actual contractual agreement to develop ITG between the two companies. Can't you even see the inherent incongruities of scenarios you propose? You may not agree with or even like my analysis of this situation, but at least I can honestly say I'm putting actual thought into the matter.
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Wolfman Jake
Last edited by Wolfman Jake on Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:39 am, edited 3 times in total |
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