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Alezay
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
20.  Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Boochypa wrote: | | Quote: | | I can safely say that Energizer is only tiring to those who cannot crossover efficiently or step jump at 303BPM. |
Right, because long streams at 303 bpm with non-trivial amounts of candle steps aren't tiring at all. Yeah. |
Exactly. They aren't. At least to me. Kaku has a good point though. HotN does have a much slower portion of it. BUT most people can't make it through that slow portion for stamina reasons. Believe it or not, HotN is quite tiring to 90% of people that can pass it. I mean 898 steps NOT counting the jumps is *quite* alot of steps. And 90% of the entire chart is 16ths and the rest 8th notes and 24ths. I don't see how someone can pass HotN and not Go*60*Go (example) unless it's a technique problem of sorts. And of course, after playing any 12, you're on the fatigued side, but with Bloodrush, most people I've seen that pass it aren't so tired they cannot play a 10 or 11 directly after and perform less than average on it.
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Boochypa
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Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: VA Tech |
| 21. Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| LEEROY! (Alezay) wrote: | | Boochypa wrote: | | Quote: | | I can safely say that Energizer is only tiring to those who cannot crossover efficiently or step jump at 303BPM. |
Right, because long streams at 303 bpm with non-trivial amounts of candle steps aren't tiring at all. Yeah. |
Exactly. They aren't. At least to me. |
I can safely say that a lot more people than you seem to realize find such runs tiring. |
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tortoise
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: ex Iowan now in WV |
| 22. Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| I'm nowhere near ready for it on expert, but it's fantastic on hard. One of the best songs in the game, easily. |
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tac-tics
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Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Location: Probably playing DDR |
| 23. Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Determinator is only really stamina draining during the runs. The rest of it is a cakewalk. It's the hardest to pass, but the average power your legs require to pass it is much less than Euphoria.
Energizer is easy cheese.
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Last edited by tac-tics on Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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FujiFlame
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, FL |
| 24. Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kaku wrote: | | LEEROY! (Alezay) wrote: | | Bloodrush is a weird one. You can either pass it and not be tired. Or fail it period. |
I'm not sure about that one. The few people who have passed it in my area get tired by the end including myself. Maybe at higher levels you can pass it and not be tired, but there are definately a large group of people who pass it with just enough energy to complete the song. |
Agreed. Every time I pass the song I feel like I'm gonna die, and I have a decent score on it...but still I hurt a lot after Bloodrush. |
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Alezay
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
| 25. Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Boochypa wrote: | | LEEROY! (Alezay) wrote: | | Boochypa wrote: | | Quote: | | I can safely say that Energizer is only tiring to those who cannot crossover efficiently or step jump at 303BPM. |
Right, because long streams at 303 bpm with non-trivial amounts of candle steps aren't tiring at all. Yeah. |
Exactly. They aren't. At least to me. |
I can safely say that a lot more people than you seem to realize find such runs tiring. |
There's only 2 "long runs" and the rest of the runs are so easily steppable it's not even funny.
Not so sure about the Bloodrush one. Maybe that songs difficulty varies between person due to stamina limits.
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figgy20000
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Joined: 16 Feb 2004
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| 26. Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| LEEROY! (Alezay) wrote: | | Boochypa wrote: | | Quote: | | I can safely say that Energizer is only tiring to those who cannot crossover efficiently or step jump at 303BPM. |
Right, because long streams at 303 bpm with non-trivial amounts of candle steps aren't tiring at all. Yeah. |
Exactly. They aren't. At least to me. Kaku has a good point though. HotN does have a much slower portion of it. BUT most people can't make it through that slow portion for stamina reasons. Believe it or not, HotN is quite tiring to 90% of people that can pass it. I mean 898 steps NOT counting the jumps is *quite* alot of steps. And 90% of the entire chart is 16ths and the rest 8th notes and 24ths. I don't see how someone can pass HotN and not Go*60*Go (example) unless it's a technique problem of sorts. And of course, after playing any 12, you're on the fatigued side, but with Bloodrush, most people I've seen that pass it aren't so tired they cannot play a 10 or 11 directly after and perform less than average on it. |
... besides for bloodrush (which should be a 13 anyways!), Go 60 Go was the last 12 I passed, and it took me the longest  HOTN is one of the most tiring 12s but it's pretty easy to pass otherwise.
Go 60 Go is not stamina draining at all compared to the other 12s, but god those mines are stupid. |
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Alezay
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
| 27. Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, this needs to be said.
BLOODRUSH SHOULD NOT BE A 13 BUT A 12 BECAUSE THAT IS WANT THE STEP CREATOR OF THE EX. STEPS WANTED IT TO BE! THEREFORE, DROP THE RATING SHOULD BE HIGHER/LOWER SUBJECT BECAUSE IT'S DUMB.
kthnxbye
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diddrstrait
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 28. Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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right, because songs have never had their difficulty ratings changed from mix to mix in ITG...
oh wait.
Alezay, I'd like to take the time to point out that while you do have an opinion, it isn't the law of the land and people are free to disagree with you. Such disagreements don't require snide responses and text in all caps. Just chill out dude. |
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critikal
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Joined: 03 Apr 2005
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| 29. Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Of course songs have had their ratings changed, including Bloodrush, which was dropped to a 12 from a 13. |
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Ryyudo -YHB-
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Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado |
| 30. Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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HOTN is a weird one. I'm not even half way sure if it's Stamina or foot speed that's keeping me from it. Although I have passed Euphoria and Delirium, so maybe Stamina and Footspeed ISN'T as much as a probably as it seems. Maybe I'm just terrible at crossovers. I know for one the Mines make a HUGE effect on me (Say goodbye on Vertex, I have yet to pass it). And sometimes it's my let-down on Go*60*Go (otherwise, the easiest 12, IMO).
So all in all, depends on your weakness and strengths. I guess HotN kind puts pure power into it, giving it your all for the steps.
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Alezay
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
| 31. Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Syncognition wrote: | right, because songs have never had their difficulty ratings changed from mix to mix in ITG...
oh wait.
Alezay, I'd like to take the time to point out that while you do have an opinion, it isn't the law of the land and people are free to disagree with you. Such disagreements don't require snide responses and text in all caps. Just chill out dude. |
I never said they didn't. But that has only happened with 2 songs, and RoXoR didn't have to change it because that it was they intended the song to be, but they did because they listen to us as players and corrected, what we thought was wrong.
And I don't consider my opinion "law of the land" and I like it when people disagree because I like to argue. But seriously, the above in caps stands true. Higher level players have more of a feel for things that should be switched in difficulty and some people will say anything, such as the infamous Disconnected Hyper should be a 12 discussion. (When ITG was first out) I think that the step chart creators can effieciently judge what they're stepcharts' rating should be and they do so accordingly. The stepchart creator of Bloodrush intended for it to be a 12, while may being a SUPER HARD song to some, it could be a much easier time for others. And to the latter, Bloodrush will not need be a 13 in that person's sight. That's why I claim that it's dumb subject. I'm sure that RoXoR can determine what should be changed by themselves and like I said, that doesn't happen with more than 3 or 4 songs because you can only look at something from your point of view. When ITG first came out and people stumbled upon Euphoria, they instantly said "OMFG THIS SHOULD BE A 13!" when in reality, after people had adapted to the ITG way of things, it didn't seem like it should be a 13 any more, but just stay as a hard 12.
The above in caps is not a statement of my own, but has been said many, many times and people need to accept that fact and post things such as that in the proper places. And I took a chill pill a few moments ago and am cooled off now... 
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diddrstrait
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 32. Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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I believe Euphoria should be a 12. I believe bloodrush should be a 13, simply because even though I've passed pandemonium and summer, I can't touch it because of readability. Basically from what I've heard, Bloodrush is a 12 simply because LilQ raped it at ASI. Roxor based the rating of that song on what one playtester said, not their initial judgement. It was a 13 originally, and since I've failed it more times than I failed pandemonium, I believe it's as hard or harder to pass, and deserves a rating of 13.
As far as the caps go, just because it's a statement that you feel needs to be more pronounced doesn't give you the excuse to have poor etiquitte and talk down to everyone who disagrees with you. Even if many people share your opinion, that makes it no more valid, just louder. You do this pretty often actually, and it's rather rude. Perhaps it's not my place to say on this forum, but as a mod of a forum you attend regularly, I figured I'd point it out.
On topic, Hardcore of the North isn't too terribly difficult. It definitely is tiring, having the highest number of steps in ITG, but there are hardly any complex patterns in the song. It's mostly just rhythmically challenging if anything. I passed the song as my 3rd 12, about 3 weeks after we got ITG1 at rocky's back in November of 2004. I believe I got around 80% on it my first pass (which was also my first try), and my record on it is around 90-91 from January of this year. I haven't played it since then, so I'm sure I could 95+ it now. |
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Alezay
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
| 33. Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| Syncognition wrote: | I believe Euphoria should be a 12. I believe bloodrush should be a 13, simply because even though I've passed pandemonium and summer, I can't touch it because of readability. Basically from what I've heard, Bloodrush is a 12 simply because LilQ raped it at ASI. Roxor based the rating of that song on what one playtester said, not their initial judgement. It was a 13 originally, and since I've failed it more times than I failed pandemonium, I believe it's as hard or harder to pass, and deserves a rating of 13.
As far as the caps go, just because it's a statement that you feel needs to be more pronounced doesn't give you the excuse to have poor etiquitte and talk down to everyone who disagrees with you. Even if many people share your opinion, that makes it no more valid, just louder. You do this pretty often actually, and it's rather rude. Perhaps it's not my place to say on this forum, but as a mod of a forum you attend regularly, I figured I'd point it out.
On topic, Hardcore of the North isn't too terribly difficult. It definitely is tiring, having the highest number of steps in ITG, but there are hardly any complex patterns in the song. It's mostly just rhythmically challenging if anything. I passed the song as my 3rd 12, about 3 weeks after we got ITG1 at rocky's back in November of 2004. I believe I got around 80% on it my first pass (which was also my first try), and my record on it is around 90-91 from January of this year. I haven't played it since then, so I'm sure I could 95+ it now. |
Bloodrush should be a 13 just because of readability + stamina? I think Vertex^2 has that covered. I think Vertex^2 is a 13 for the same reason Pandemonium was a 13, no one could pass it on their 1st try. Mike passed Bloodrush on his 1st try I'm assuming, so they dropped the rating. I don't see how that can be a bad thing because 13's should be songs that take a while for anyone to pass, but not a song someone can breeze through before the game is even out. I bet that's why they dropped it. Bloodrush is just like Oasis was to ITG1, people had the hardest time with it because it required a certain set of skills most players did not have yet. Bloodrush requires certain skills to pull off something like it's 32nd run and the section with holds and 8th note taps. We just have to give it time and it will become more and more easier to pass and will at that time, seem more like a 12 than 13. Did Oasis get bumped to an 13 just because it seemed impossible at first even though most of us could pass even harder stuff? No. It stayed a 10 because once everyone developed the skills to pass it, it wasn't hard anymore but quite fun to play. I believe that every step rating has it's range. Easy, Medium, Hard. There's easy 12's such as Vertex. Medium difficulty 12's such as Go*60*Go or Energizer. And then there'sthe hard/borderline 12's such as Bloodrush, Euphoria, etc. It seems that most if not all borderline 12's were 13's at one time. Then, based on just a few people passing it right off the get go (when beta machines were out), RoXoR decided to drop the right. Again, I believe the motive behind this was one reason: They want 13's to be something that almost no one can pass first try, otherwise they would have just stopped the ratings at 12. I think Summer ~Speedy Mix~ was made a 13 for the sheer fact that it has 16ths at 185 and to some people, that can be completly draining. Now, to most of us, pssh Summer is a cakewalk, but all of us have 3 things: Stamina, Very high footspeed, and the ability to read runs moving at that speed. Believe it or not, I've seen players that cannot read the runs in Charlene, as simple as the patterns may be. While I'm sure they have the ability to pass that song, I assume they freak out when they see a wall of Red, Blue, and Green scrolling upwards. But more on that another time.
As far as using caps go, I apoligize for being rude to anyone by using caps. I see that you find caps to be the equivalent of yelling, so from now on, I will refrain from using all caps in sentences. But instead, emphasizing with asterisks. Again, I apoligize. However, I will say this, I don't talk down to people who disagree with me. I just disagree right back because I like to argue and when I think I have a valid point, I will make sure it is known. I refuse to walk on egg shells however.
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Kaku
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Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Location: Surrey, BC |
| 34. Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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I passed Summer on my first try and I am by no means an elite ITG player by standards nowadays. Bloodrush on the other hand took me 8 tries and I still sometimes fail it while I'm managing scores in the 90's for Summer already. Even Determinator made me fail one or two times before I passed it due to the middle run.
If 16ths at 185 made Summer a 13, and since that song only has like 4 long runs at that speed, Determinator would be a 13 under that criteria. Even though there are only two shorter runs compared to Summer's 4, the speed of the steps are generally quicker to make someone fail than in Summer.
Just a side note, the hardest part in Summer for me is the portion of steps after the first long run up to until it stops jumping ><
Back to topic, my most recent scores (not exactly my best, but the ones I got last time I played the song) are 92.xx on HotN and 79.xx% on Bloodrush ~_~ That song hates me.
On the other hand, there's one person in my area who has passed Bloodrush who believes that it's easier than Summer... but he plays on C450 =| |
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Brooks
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Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Location: Mantua, N.J. |
| 35. Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I too love Hardcore of the North. I love the beat to it, and the steps. My best has to be around 70% (I turned mines off  ). Yes, this gets tiring too, very. I've only been playing for about 1½ years (Well DDR at least). ITG..around 2 months. There are many other hard 12s. Many that annoy me and I can't do. Bloodrush  . |
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ninjafetus
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Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Location: Albuquerque, NM/Lubbock, TX |
| 36. Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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sorry, but bloodrush is easier than summer, Pandy, and even Tell and HotN (imo)
Why is it that people have so much trouble with songs that require technique instead of flailing (summer)?
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FujiFlame
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, FL |
| 37. Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ninjafetus wrote: | sorry, but bloodrush is easier than summer, Pandy, and even Tell and HotN (imo)
Why is it that people have so much trouble with songs that require technique instead of flailing (summer)? |
You almost contradict yourself; Tell is "technique requiring" more so than any of those other ones, that it doesn't really deserve to be listed with the others, as they are generally "flailing" songs. My point is, if you can say "Why is it that people have so much trouble with songs that require technique instead of flailing," but think Tell is harder than Bloodrush, you must understand that I have just as much right to say "Why is it that you have so much trouble with Tell that requires quick 16th step-jump technique," because imo Tell is easier than Bloodrush. You must understand that some people have their ups and downs in technique, and for many, the slowness and one-foot-freeze-eights in Bloodrush are difficult, and I can conclude that you must have problems with quick 16th jump-steps. And HOTN? Cmon, dude, the song's cake, especailly compared to Bloodrush; it's just 16ths and a few mines and 32nds. It's all about strengths and weaknesses, and Bloodrush just tends to fling the worst of everything at you.
However, I also believe Bloodrush is far easier than the 13's. I've passed every 12 with at least a 90 (other than Euphoria, 85 ish), and still have yet to pass a 13. Haven't tried within the past few times I've gone though, may pass Pandy now; I just don't quite have the speed consistency for Summer.
And where is this topic going? It seems like a lot of this should be in the Footer Level thread...but at the same time the discussion has seemed to generally stay within 12's/13's, about which are harder within that level. A whole thread for HOTN is kina weird.... I dunno, just figured I'd bring this up if no one else has noticed. |
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Marq(uistadorous)
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Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, CO |
| 38. Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| LEEROY! (Alezay) wrote: |
Go*60*Go
Vertex
!
Energizer
Tell
Delirium
Hardcore of the North
Euphoria
Determinator |
Well I havent even heard of Go*60*Go,!,Energizer,or Determinator because I havent played at the arcade.
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ThemsAllTook
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Location: Virginia, USA |
| 39. Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| [ES] FujiFlame wrote: | | And HOTN? Cmon, dude, the song's cake, especailly compared to Bloodrush; it's just 16ths and a few mines and 32nds. |
Those are 24ths, not 32nds.
</pedantic> |
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