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acceptance of speed modifiers
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Thomas Hobbes
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20. PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, two speed mods I'd like would be 3.5x and C600.
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Fictional Funeral
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21. PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O_o Wow, you guys read waaaay fast.

I disliked mods other than Boost in DDR until I started ITG and then 1.5 accel became pretty mjuch a standard for me in order to read. Some things (higher end nines and any tens I attempt) need 2.5 accel or 3X just so I can read them....and now I 1.5 everything in DDR because I'm getting used to reading faster (stuff at 200 BPM played 1X boost/accel seems to be scrolling annoyingly slow to me. It's weird...).
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Original Z
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22. PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's an interesting subject. I'm strict 1x on DDR. I use speed mods on ITG and PIU, but if I've played a song a couple of times then I can play them on 1x no problem since I already know what the beat is.

I consider C mods to be BS if people use them for songs that have speed changes.

It's really not that hard playing at 1x for me, but probably because that's how I play DDR and don't have trouble reading it. It makes me sad when people can't even pass a song on 1x than they can easily FC with speed mods. ITG and PIU have more complicated rhythms definitely, and I would consider it near impossible to pass some of them on the first try, but once you know what the steps go to, it's not very difficult to play 1x.
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diddrstrait
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23. PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why in the world does another person's preference about an option in a video game make you sad? I suppose you'd feel sorry playing me in halo with my controller set to southpaw because it isn't the default, eh?
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24. PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syncognition wrote:
why in the world does another person's preference about an option in a video game make you sad? I suppose you'd feel sorry playing me in halo with my controller set to southpaw because it isn't the default, eh?

Good post.
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Original Z
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25. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syncognition wrote:
why in the world does another person's preference about an option in a video game make you sad? I suppose you'd feel sorry playing me in halo with my controller set to southpaw because it isn't the default, eh?


This is mainly relating to DDR, I'm much more understanding with ITG and PIU because some of the 10s would be very difficult to read on 1x until you become very familliar with it (which is why I mod those games the first few times).

However, it makes me sad mainly because it means they're completely reliant on speed mods to even pass a song. Speed Mods stunt your growth. Now, without them, some people are definitely not as good (unlike back in the day where you either played 1x or didn't play at all). If you CAN'T even PASS a song on 1x that you can SDG on 2x or 3x, then you aren't really as good as you think you are. There are a lot of players around that can pass MAX300 but can't pass Secret Rendezvous. I've seen it plenty of times. Hell, there are people who downright refuse to play on 1x no matter what, which I kind of find pathetic.

Hell, why do people look down so much on Little mod? It's a selectable option (which has been around pre-MAX) that also makes the game easier.

However, this is mainly because of my upbringing. Over here, you either play 1x or S4R. People who use speed mods are really looked down upon (not so much for ITG or PIU, but there are still some who are strict 1x on those too). If I started on a post-MAX machine and learned with speed mods, then I may have a different view of things. As it stands, I personally don't really care if people use them or not, but I'll definitely give more respect to 1x. This is all my personal opinion, I don't really care if people don't agree with it.
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Rancidfish
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26. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play 1x, but that's only because I find it the easiest way to play, most of the time. If there's a song I can read better on 1.5x or 2x, I'll happily play it, but as a general rule, I'm bad at reading fast stuff.

Specifically, I recently learned that I'm bad at comprehending stuff that's spaced too far apart. I tend to read ahead heavily, so when the next arrow is well after this one, I have to look farther to keep track of both of them. Thus, spacing out the arrows often actively impedes my ability to read them.

Of course, this isn't universally true. In many songs with long sets of turning 1/16ths (Such as The Beginning or Mythology) or any tighter runs (1/24ths or 1/32nds like in Determinator and Bloodrush), then I'll use higher speeds. However, for most stuff I stick to 1x. I just find it easier that way.

However, since I'm playing 1x to make things easy on myself, I have no problem with people playing whatever speed makes them most comfortable. If other players are reliant on speed mods, I'm reliant on 1x. I can think of a lot of times when I've tried out speed mods on easier songs and I've made mistakes because of it.

So, almost everyone plays ItG on high speeds, and I play on 1x, but we're just the same. We're just doing what we must to play our best.
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Original Z
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27. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rancidfish wrote:
Stuff


Aye, exactly what it should be! People should just play on what they're most comfortable with and not worry about what other people think.

About time someone said it like that, I agree fully.
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mtwieg
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28. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been hearing occasionally about people using c400 and c500 as if it's somehow unfair. I've never used them, so could someone explain exactly what they do and if they could be seen as unfair?
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29. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtwieg wrote:
I've been hearing occasionally about people using c400 and c500 as if it's somehow unfair. I've never used them, so could someone explain exactly what they do and if they could be seen as unfair?


The "C" mods make the arrows scroll at a constant rate of speed - meaning no slow downs or speed ups. Think of VerTex - it slows down, then speeds up, then slows down, speeds up - speeds up even more... If you look ahead as you are reading the arrows, you are liable to keep pummeling the pattern until your brain catches up with the fact that the arrows have just been slowed down to half their original speed, causing greats, way offs and misses, etc. Likewise with being caught off guard by unexpected speed ups.

The arrows in a "C" mod on VerTex would all scroll at the exact same rate - so for slower portions of the song the arrows would be farther apart but your brain/feet perceive it as if they are stepping to the same beat regardless of the music, for the faster portions of songs the arrows would appear slightly closer together.

The number after the "C" indicates the bpm by which the constant scroll takes place - so, for example, at C300 - the arrows all scroll the equivalent of a Max300 scroll - regardless of the song's actual tempo.
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30. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2x in DDR... 2.5 to 3x in ITG (except for uber fast songs like VerTex and Pandy)
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31. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MYGAMES!Kiba wrote:
Uhhh...4x or C500 is like standard.

No it's not.

Anyway, to answer the original poster's question, I've noticed that many players - both on Groovestats and in person - have taken quite a liking to the new x2.5 speed mod. And I can understand why; this mod definitely would have made life easier in DDR. I've especially noticed that on mid-to-somewhat-high tempo songs that don't have much in terms of cluttered notes (Flying High, Disconnected Mobius, etc.), x2.5 is very popular for most people. However, checking Groovestats, the select few that get the highest scores often use x3 or even x4/C500. This makes sense, as these players typically have more experience with the game, and usually have spent some time improving their reading speeds. There are always exceptions, though.

Now, for songs with denser stepcharts, such as Hardcore of the North and Euphoria, I've noticed that most players have the tendency to bump up the speed one level than they usually do for songs of the same tempo. I have personally never seen someone play Euphoria any slower than x2.5, and a quick check of Groovestats show that many people use x3 on this song, with some of the upper tier even using x4, which is over 550 BPM.

Everyone has preferences, and there's no real set standard for everyone. DDR was much different as there were less mods to choose from, and very few songs with any cluttered notes. But now that ITG is here, which its much more diverse stepcharts, many people are being forced to change everything about how they play; from their speed mod choices, to their footing technique, to their stance on bar-holding, even to what part of the screen they look at when attempting to time the arrows!

Hope this helped.
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Thomas Hobbes
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32. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's talking about how it's standard for himself dummy.

Oh and I suck at FA on 1x. >=P
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33. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

St00pidBaka // BluR wrote:
He's talking about how it's standard for himself dummy.

I'm almost positive Kiba means overall, since I just checked his photobucket account and almost every single good score of his was on C400 or 3x, not C500 or 4x.
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Slizzer
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34. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh shit, a guy from San Francisco just called me a dummy.
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35. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slizzer wrote:
I have personally never seen someone play Euphoria any slower than x2.5, and a quick check of Groovestats show that many people use x3 on this song, with some of the upper tier even using x4, which is over 550 BPM.
Oh, crap, I never posted my Euphoria score on Groovestats! :O
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36. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chilly Cha Cha wrote:
mtwieg wrote:
I've been hearing occasionally about people using c400 and c500 as if it's somehow unfair. I've never used them, so could someone explain exactly what they do and if they could be seen as unfair?


The "C" mods make the arrows scroll at a constant rate of speed - meaning no slow downs or speed ups. Think of VerTex - it slows down, then speeds up, then slows down, speeds up - speeds up even more... If you look ahead as you are reading the arrows, you are liable to keep pummeling the pattern until your brain catches up with the fact that the arrows have just been slowed down to half their original speed, causing greats, way offs and misses, etc. Likewise with being caught off guard by unexpected speed ups.tempo.


It's unfair because it fixes all the wAcKy fun BPM changes, so if you're playing competitively and you are using C mods and the other player/s aren't, then it's unfair because most people find it easier to PA (percentage attack) at a fixed rate.

Personally, I CHEAT by using speed mods like x1.5, x2, x2.5 and x3 all the damn time because I'm a bad person with no respect for fair play. Well, actually it's beause I'm more visual than auditory.
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37. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that using C-mods in a song/course with BPM changes or stops will disqualify your score.
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38. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunderbird wrote:
Don't forget that using C-mods in a song/course with BPM changes or stops will disqualify your score.


Indeed. This means that comments like "lolz cmods r the gai cus dey tuk are jorbs n make songs lyk vErTrEx 2 ez" are just silly, since nobody should be using them on those songs in the first place, and if they do the game renders their score invalid.
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39. PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what's wierd? I usually bump up my speed mods to the next level when I use the bar. That control thing. And that I have to use 4x on Euphoria, even though that would be unheard of for me on any other song.
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