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The Letter K
Trick Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Location: Colonial Heights, VA |
780.  Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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So has there been ANY update in the court case yet? Just wondering. 
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VxJasonxV
Maniac Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Castle Rock, CO |
| 781. Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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No, but you've officially given us the 40th page is a single topic chain of discussion.
Congrats  .
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darkchao56
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Location: Westminster, MD |
| 782. Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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ATTENTION EVERYONE -
Please stop posting here. Its just a big waste of our time. This is whats going to happen:
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Here on the ------------------------------------------------- Here on the
left you have --------------------------------------------- right you have
Konami: ----------------------------------------------------------- Roxor:
 <---Money craving evil poophead---Awesomenessxor! --->
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IN THE END THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS:
pwns
If my dad can win a lawsuit against Atari (wich he did w/o a loyar)
I'm sure Roxor will pull through just fine!
And, seiriously, its not our buisness to discuss. Neither company needs your opinions or pressure put on them by the community.
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DJTyrant
Maniac Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Location: Ventura, CA |
| 783. Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Who died and made you a mod...
Oh wait, no one.
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Thomas Hobbes
Trick Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Location: San Francisco // NorCal |
| 784. Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Lol at "loyar".
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"I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark."
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VxJasonxV
Maniac Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Castle Rock, CO |
| 785. Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| darkchao56 wrote: | If my dad can win a lawsuit against Atari (wich he did w/o a loyar)
I'm sure Roxor will pull through just fine!
And, seiriously, its not our buisness to discuss. Neither company needs your opinions or pressure put on them by the community. |
I'm sure the terms of the lawsuit were exactly the same.
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gL.Karl
Trick Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
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| 786. Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:06 am Post subject: |
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My awfully late $0.02
To the people sporting the "Boycott Konami - Support the Future of Music Games" signatures. Your signature is highly flawed. If we allowed individuals to violate copyright law to the point where machine design are unchanged and marketed as a different item, companies holding those copyrights would have no, or at least less of an incentive to continue producing their product (in this case music games) for public use. Therefore, following your advice to boycott Konami would actually undermine the primary reason used to support that claim.
Companies should be able to reap all deserved benefits for their originality and work put into building up a product to the point where it becomes a success rather than be criticized as "money craving evil empires" when they defend their market interests and those of their shareholders. It's not greed, it's just good business.
In response to those who believe Konami should merge or buy out Roxor... what incentive would they have for doing that when they can simply shut Roxor out altogether and keep the entire market for themselves? Dropping a few thousand dollars on a legal team and court proceedings will be easily made back in future software sales.
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mrclean235
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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| 787. Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Very good point, granted, I think Konami dropped the ball a little bit by even letting itg arcade come out. We shall see who will win, we're not in the courtroom unfortunately, its the press's job to let us know now  . |
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ninjafetus
Trick Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Location: Albuquerque, NM/Lubbock, TX |
| 788. Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| mrclean235 wrote: | | Very good point, granted, I think Konami dropped the ball a little bit by even letting itg arcade come out. |
no... why would they take the time and money to sue someone if they didn't know if they would be a financial threat to them? Wait until you know they're a threat, and then sue. Also, if they do end up getting of their feet (which they did), maybe a settlement could mean more money for you.
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uelrindru
Trick Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: NY |
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Sinistar
Trick Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Location: State College, PA, US |
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Thrill_Shakespeare
Trick Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Location: Macon, Georgia |
| 791. Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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It sure seems like it would. Do you know if the patent is for calorie counters on dancing games in general or for their specific formulae? A different formula may be able to dance around it (so to speak  ). |
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Sinistar
Trick Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Location: State College, PA, US |
| 792. Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the formula itself is not mentioned, though I don't know what the rules are regarding whether or not a patented formula has to be publicly displayed.
The patent language does make it sound awfully specific to a particular method of tracking and reporting energy consumed during play. It also mentions allowing the player to set and achieve goals (for burn and weight loss).
This makes it sound specifically as though calculating based on the speed and combinations of steps is a core part of the patent.
| Konami's other DDR patent wrote: | | In the present invention, a detection is made as to whether or not the player puts their foot or feet on each of the plurality of step positions, and a judgement is then made, based on the result of the detection, as to which, of a plurality of pattern changes, the state of the player's feet relative to the plurality of step positions has changed to. Further, based on the determined pattern change, how much energy the player has consumed by changing their feet's state is calculated. An energy consumption amount calculated after a predetermined timing is accumulated for calculation of an accumulative energy consumption amount. An accumulative energy consumption amount is reported to the player, for example, either in the form of a physical unit (such as calorie) or after commutation into an amount of food or exercise. As a result, the player can know an amount of energy they have consumed by playing the game. In other words, the player's game playing performance is evaluated from a new point of view, and reported to the player. This can resultantly impart a new point of enjoyment to a music-oriented game. |
If Roxor or anyone else used a much more simplistic system, they might have an argument to get them around it, but there are so many scenarios covered by the patent that it might take a while to figure out just how broad it really is.
Interestingly, I sat down about a year ago to really chart out the calorie counter in DDR and discovered that it does alter the per step calorie amounts depending on the step pattern changes (Left than Right will give different totals than Left than Down). That's exactly what is described in this patent.
Figure 8, however, paints a much simpler picture. That flowchart displays the calculation of any state change, which could be as simple as "left arrow open" becoming "left arrow closed" when stepped upon.
Figure 10 is cool, though. It shows that they had at some point planned to show people food equivalents for calorie burn. So, you could play DDR for 10 minutes and be told you burned off a banana. 
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Thrill_Shakespeare
Trick Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Location: Macon, Georgia |
| 793. Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Sinistar wrote: | | So, you could play DDR for 10 minutes and be told you burned off a banana. |
I can see it already: Congratulations on completing your five song set of all 9s and 10s (or 10+ on ITG.) You've successfully burned off Taco Bell's entire menu.
Could be a good chance for product placement...
Still (jumping back on topic) it sure seems to leave Konami an opening to sue Roxor on the console game as well. There still has been no movement on that front, right? The console release is just held up in production? |
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Cutriss
Staff Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 794. Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Thrill_Shakespeare wrote: | | Still (jumping back on topic) it sure seems to leave Konami an opening to sue Roxor on the console game as well. There still has been no movement on that front, right? The console release is just held up in production? |
Nobody knows, and the people that do know aren't talking. | uelrindru wrote: | | did your father win singlehandedly or did they (the much more likely option) settle? most likely Atari didn't want bad PR, or to waste the time so they settled companies do it all the time. |
More than likely his dad didn't sue anyone at all and is just making the story up.
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mini putt
Vivid Member
Joined: 29 May 2005
Location: rocky mount nc |
| 795. Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:01 pm Post subject: Video game operator weighs in |
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The video game industry has always had lawsuits of this nature. The most recent being Incredible Technologies(golden tee golf) vs. Global VR (PGA).
PGA made an almost exact copy of the GT game(with some very minor changes) and sold refit kits decals and Marquees to turn your GT's into PGA'S. Sound familiar..........
An excellent article on the how the legal process works is currently in the headlines on this web site. But to cut to the chase..Like Jay and Silent Bob konami wants their check. Look for a backroom deal, and little or no delay on the new ITG2. If everything holds to form from previous lawsuits Konami just wants a slice of ITG's revenue, especially the home version. Don't know if this helps or just adds to the blah blah blah. I'm just glad a newbie like me had a little sense and posted in the right place...lol |
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Kidneyman
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Location: Boise, ID |
| 796. Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:24 am Post subject: |
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a very interesting case
i guess we'll have to hope ITG is different enough from DDR to hold its own...
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Thrill_Shakespeare
Trick Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Location: Macon, Georgia |
| 797. Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Kidneyman wrote: | | i guess we'll have to hope ITG is different enough from DDR to hold its own... |
As much as I hope ITG survives this case, I'm not sure "Look, our arrows don't just move up - they do cool tricks!" is enough to differentiate it from DDR.
Yes, I know ITG has mines, quads, more difficult steps, and different music but the gameplay described in Konami's patent might as well be describing ITG too.
Pray for a settlement -- it's ITG's best chance for survival. |
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VxJasonxV
Maniac Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Castle Rock, CO |
| 798. Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Thrill_Shakespeare wrote: | | Kidneyman wrote: | | i guess we'll have to hope ITG is different enough from DDR to hold its own... |
As much as I hope ITG survives this case, I'm not sure "Look, our arrows don't just move up - they do cool tricks!" is enough to differentiate it from DDR.
Yes, I know ITG has mines, quads, more difficult steps, and different music but the gameplay described in Konami's patent might as well be describing ITG too.
Pray for a settlement -- it's ITG's best chance for survival. |
It's not the design/play style of the game itself, it's the fact that it illegally altered a patented work.
Please read what the case is actually about.
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Thrill_Shakespeare
Trick Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Location: Macon, Georgia |
| 799. Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| VxJasonxV wrote: | It's not the design/play style of the game itself, it's the fact that it illegally altered a patented work.
Please read what the case is actually about. |
Point well taken. Thanks for getting me on track. Still the similarity makes me nervous for any possible future actions.
Legal question for the gurus: after this case is decided could Konami bring up another action specifically predicated on gameplay? |
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