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LET ME SHOW YOU THEM
Vivid Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Location: Mountain View/Sunnyvale CA |
700.  Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| cfusionpm wrote: |
as a moderator, you should have a lot more class than making stupid gimmicky jokes. especially in a forum you moderate. |
Making a jab at a dying man because you have a feud going with said man's son is SO full of class. Back to the suit, RoXoR isn't going to say anything for quite a while, so sit tight and enjoy ITG2 in June
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| theficionado wrote: | | Seriously, they should make some sort of spray for you. |
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J. S. Mill
Maniac Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
| 701. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Oregon flavored Caffy wrote: | | Back to the suit, RoXoR isn't going to say anything for quite a while, so sit tight and enjoy ITG2 in June |
Prepare, Travis, for my 100% on Flying High Expert.
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Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 702. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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I personally think that my attempt accomplishes both ends. I've pointed out the error of the context and the fact that FHOD's post was worthless despite the context, i.e. it was a thoughtless, fanboyish, off-the-cuff remark. Hence, he errored by making a post that's just devoid of any intellectual engagement and by making it in the wrong place.
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Wolfman Jake |
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J. S. Mill
Maniac Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
| 703. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | I personally think that my attempt accomplishes both ends. I've pointed out the error of the context and the fact that FHOD's post was worthless despite the context, i.e. it was a thoughtless, fanboyish, off-the-cuff remark. Hence, he errored by making a post that's just devoid of any intellectual engagement and by making it in the wrong place. |
Well there were two errors in the post, a contextual one and a formal one.
Your post highlights the contextual one perfectly, and very respectfully, I agree. But it does not address the formal one, which offended the logician in me.
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Funkstar Polaris
Trick Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2003
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| 704. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| project_mercy wrote: |
But they've already semi-lost that argument, and will loose the argument if they press it and RoXoR actually feels like persuing it.
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Yep. From what I gather, software patents on video game mechanics are a tricky thing. Lots of companies have them even though game mechanics seem (at least to me) to be unpatenable (i.e. they're ideas).
However, AFAICT, there hasn't been any serious legal challenge to the validity of these patents because most of the suits that apply have been settled out of court (e.g. Konami vs. Andamiro or the Crazy Taxi vs. Simpsons Road Rage suit). Whenever you sue someone for patent violation it's putting your patent at risk of being invalidated. Maybe because of this, companies with gameplay patents have only sued ones that they 'know' will settle, either because it's too expensive to fight or they risk losing for some other reason.
If they miscalculate, though, and a suit like this gets to court, sparks could fly. |
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Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Tobias Preener
Trick Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere (North Dakota) |
| 706. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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if konami wins, doest his mean arcades have to get rid of ITG games?
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| Ned Diggers wrote: | Everytime someone frick quotes one of my frick godly posts and places it in there signature I have to change my name. I don't want any of you NERDS ruining my E-Rep by being 'friends' with me.
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Brawl FC (PM me): 0989-1391-5541
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J. S. Mill
Maniac Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
| 707. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | I didn't see FHOD's post as an argument so much as a compound proposition. As you know, logic deals with the validity of arguments, not the veracity of simple statements. FHOD was simply stating a bunch of false propositions, not really trying to make an argument, in my opinion. Perhaps you were trying too hard to make sense of what was essentially a post of complete nonsense  |
Logic deals with single statements too, it darn well better or theorems wouldn't exist. Might want to review Symbolic Logic, my friend.
Example of a single logical statement:
(box)/\xPx -> /\x(box)Px [Barcan Formula Converse]
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Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 708. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| SPF5.Kiba wrote: | Logic deals with single statements too, it darn well better or theorems wouldn't exist. Might want to review Symbolic Logic, my friend.
Example of a single logical statement:
(box)/\xPx -> /\x(box)Px [Barcan Formula Converse] |
Symbolic Logic of course deals with statements, but the use is ultimately to determine if arguments are valid or not. You do not call an argument "true" or "false," only valid or invalid. For example, symbolic logic tells us that:
A implies B
B imples C
then
A implies C
The above you should recognize as the hypothetical syllogism. Note the word "hypothetical." It doesn't tell us anything about whether or not A, B, C is "true." That is simply knowledge that you bring into an argument from outside the logical system under the suppositions that a given proposition is, we'll say A, is true (A) or not true (~A). You can make a perfectly valid argument constructed of false propositions so long as you make no inferences that prove any of your starting propositions to be contradictions. The best kind of valid argument, of course, is the kind built from only true propositions, a sound argument.
Anyway, what you were doing, Kiba, was not deconstructing FHOD's post in any kind of logical system. What you were doing was definately not "reductio ad absurdum," in which, again, one simply proves the validity or invalidity of an argument by trying to create a contradiction in the assignment of truth values in a truth table. Again, I'm not even convinced that FHOD was making an argument. You were essentially just saying, "FHOD, you said A, and I think it's actually ~A, and I will show you this by saying B."
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Loogaroo
Trick Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Location: Glendale, CA |
| 709. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Dammit, Wolfman, look what you've done. You've made Kiba resort to using logic symbol gibberish.
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Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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Jeffreyw
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: Spokane, WA |
| 711. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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More like noone should say anything intill we hear something new. Seriously.
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Loogaroo
Trick Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Location: Glendale, CA |
| 712. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Konami vs. Roxor? Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble! Opinion opinion! Rabble rabble grumble rabble! |
I think the Hamburglar hijacked your computer. 
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Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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cfusionpm
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA |
| 714. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Loogaroo wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Konami vs. Roxor? Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble! Opinion opinion! Rabble rabble grumble rabble! |
I think the Hamburglar hijacked your computer. |
That'd be: "Robble robble!" I think  Hmmm...hambrugers. Now I'm hungry... |
you better watch that spelling... you dont want mc donalds to sue you!
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toady007
Trick Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA |
| 715. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Honestly...some people are too emotionally invested in dance games. |
Says the guy who takes offense at a stupid joke but has been posting ten times a day in this topic and the identical one on AIJ. But I'm sure you aren't emotionally invested in the slightest, just fanatically obsessed with the legality.
| cfusionpm wrote: | | as a moderator, you should have a lot more class than making stupid gimmicky jokes. especially in a forum you moderate. |
Obviously, since moderators can't say anything humorous due to the Official Moderator Code of Forum Seriousness.
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Edible Bondage Tape
Trick Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Location: Kerri |
| 716. Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Loogaroo wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Konami vs. Roxor? Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble! Opinion opinion! Rabble rabble grumble rabble! |
I think the Hamburglar hijacked your computer. :grin: |
watch south park
might losen you up a little too
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J. S. Mill
Maniac Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
| 717. Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Wolfman IM me when you can and I'll respond, doesn't belong here. AIM: Django Rienhardt. Have you taken predicate or modal logic?
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Wolfman Jake
Trick Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 718. Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| EnglishBastardizingTerror wrote: | | Loogaroo wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Konami vs. Roxor? Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble! Opinion opinion! Rabble rabble grumble rabble! |
I think the Hamburglar hijacked your computer. |
watch south park
might losen you up a little too |
Thanks goodness for South Park, the only show brave enough to insult and alienate everyone 
Kiba: yes, I've had predicate logic/quantification theory before.
today007: What I become invested in is people diseminating false information, especially when they use such to confuse themselves and others about the reality of the situation. When people post blatantly incorrect statements like, "This doesn't make any sense. Andamiro owns the arcade dance game rights in the United States, hence why we haven't gotten a mix since DDR USA. " (borrowed from your own live journal), it just irritates me. It's likepeople don't pay attention to what's actually going on around themselves, and misinformation such as this only serves to confuse more people. For the record, Andamiro does NOT own exclusive dance game distribution rights in the US. They pay Konami royalties to produce their titles. Konami has NO ARCADE division in the US, hence no US arcade DDR since DDR USA. Why is that most probably correct whereas the assumption quoted above is dead wrong? Because Andamiro would be suing Roxor for publishing ITG without paying Andarmiro royalties, which is CLEARLY not the case. My overreaction to Kiba's joke a while back was mainly spurred from having to deal with the people I've just described. Maybe I should just spare myself the frustration and let them wallow in their own ignorance, trying not to let it bother me that their amazing lack of an ability to grasp the complexity of this lawsuit and the operational procedure of the business world in general as showcased in these threads only serves to fuel the thoughtless remarks, baseless accusations, and rediculous assumptions found therin.
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Wolfman Jake
Last edited by Wolfman Jake on Thu May 19, 2005 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total |
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sandm000
Basic Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Location: Valhalla, NY |
| 719. Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Hardware vs. Software |
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| tpmwr wrote: | | sandm000 wrote: | | If I'm not mistaken In the suit itself Konami is mostly alleging misuse of brand not game thieving. ITG uses the hardware and arcade owners don't slap on all the stickers. So I think ITG will win out here, especially since ITG runs on the BOXOR. It's a modded cabinet and doesn't present any software infringements, Patents on the cabinet itself are possibly contentious, however it will only be in issue if Konami has a DDR arcade upgrade in the works, which they should have to prove in court. So my prediction, ITG is allowed to continue. Konami is giving up all hope of ever releasing an arcade DDR in the future. |
What?!?!? Thats all I have to say. "Since ITG runs on b0x0r" What does that have to do with anything. It is a HARDWARE violation. They are using konami's mchine, which bares the resembelance to ddr because it IS a ddr cab. Just because r0x0r is using a b0x0r does magically make the machine their property.
And why does it matter if Konami is gonna release a new game? Do you think the judge is gonna say "Well you guys haven't made a new game recently, so I don't see why I should bother considering the fact you legally own a pattent to this game. I mean, come on Konami, why should the laws apply to you? I'm sick of Butterfly."
I just ask that you please think before you speak, just think a little, try not to hurt yourself though. |
I'm done hurting myself thank you. OK my point about the BoXor is this: The rest of the machine is to easily reproduced for the patent on circular neon tube around speaker in wooden box to be enforced. Very similar to the patent story on the Kaleidoscope. I get that the computer hardware inside the box is enforcable but ITG doesn't run on that, using the BoXor instead. Thank you.
The second issue deals with the fact that Konami says they are going to lose money in the FUTURE from ITG's continued use of the cabinet meaning (2+2=4) Konami will have to release a new mix, because they aren't collecting coins from the cabs themselves they would be making that FUTURE money from the sales of the upgrades and new cabs.
And if you think my cab is insulting: I can't control what you think, I can only explain it to you slowly. I think you are a responsible adult. I think you can handle your business by yourself. I think you and I can have an adult discussion about any topic. If you think this is insulting, I cannot help you.
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Yeah, but you know what? This one, this one right here. This was my dream, my wish. And it didn't come true. So I'm taking it back. I'm taking them all back. - Mouth
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