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Kyrandian
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Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Location: Portland, OR |
620.  Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| St00pidBaka // BluR wrote: | | Um, isn't it still illegal because Konami owns the patent for "arrow smashing games where you hit the arrow in time to music, and get graded on how accurate you are" king of game? |
Sounds like Pump It Up. |
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Disconnected airSpirit
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: Careeeeeeeeee, North Caroline In The City |
| 621. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| St00pidBaka // BluR wrote: | | Um, isn't it still illegal because Konami owns the patent for "arrow smashing games where you hit the arrow in time to music, and get graded on how accurate you are" king of game? |
Nah. They don't have a patent on that. They have a patent on the exact DDR machine that is around.
Hey, this is totally unrelated but I have to wonder..does Konami have a patent on the Solo machine design as well? It's different, as I'm sure we all know. |
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FTrain108
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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| 622. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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i think konami is afraid of a little friendly competition (probably because they know now that ITG is becomming more popular due to more challenging steps and "fresh" songs, plus all the mods make its 100x more fun)
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ITG sucks my left nut
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Location: oh snaps...konam0wned! |
| 623. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| well your opinion doesnt count, and thats not my opinion, its a fact |
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FTrain108
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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| 624. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: Itg |
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| ITG sucks my left nut wrote: | | well your opinion doesnt count, and thats not my opinion, its a fact |
ok prick you're probably just a fu-ck-ing noob who cant beat any 10 footers so when you see that ITG is actually HARD compared to DDR you get scared, run into your little fanboy hole, and cry yourself to sleep listening to some gay j-pop. ITG is for experienced DDR players who are sick of the same songs repeated over and over. It doesnt matter if the arrows look different or if the song select isnt as polished, what matters is the fun factor and for good players, DDR=easy=not fun. Thats why players demanded a game like ITG and thats why the good players accept the game and enjoy it for what it is
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Alezay
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
| 625. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Itg |
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| FTrain108 wrote: | | ITG sucks my left nut wrote: | | well your opinion doesnt count, and thats not my opinion, its a fact |
ok prick you're probably just a fu-ck-ing noob who cant beat any 10 footers so when you see that ITG is actually HARD compared to DDR you get scared, run into your little fanboy hole, and cry yourself to sleep listening to some gay j-pop. ITG is for experienced DDR players who are sick of the same songs repeated over and over. It doesnt matter if the arrows look different or if the song select isnt as polished, what matters is the fun factor and for good players, DDR=easy=not fun. Thats why players demanded a game like ITG and thats why the good players accept the game and enjoy it for what it is |
Strong Point.
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diddrstrait
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 626. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I hate to play mod, but the above three statements are not only incredibly off-topic and unwarranted (this isn't about what game is better guys), but they reflect poorly on the fans of both ITG and DDR. Cool it guys. |
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FTrain108
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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| 627. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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sorry, it just pisses me off when a guy with a author name "ITG sucks my left nut" walks in here and insults what i say, with nothing to back it up. If he doesnt like ITG, he shouldnt be in the ITG boards.
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Disconnected airSpirit
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Joined: 08 May 2004
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| 628. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Excuse you, FTrain.
I suck at DDR. I'm really not that good at ITG either, I can't pass 10-footers. Is ITG not for me?
People like you are why we have ITG-hating DDR fanboys. You know, the ones that go around saying ITG is elitist and only for the best players? Obviously, it's not, as I play on Hard 80% of the time and I absolutely LOVE ITG.
Also, not only can music not be gay and you should never use that as a derogatory term, but I happen to like both ITG and Jpop. There's nothing wrong with it.
By the way; when ITG goes kaboom in a few years and ITG7 is everywhere, you'll be quite sick of hearing Vertex^7 and !?.??!...!!?!?!. Don't act as if the 'songs getting old' virus is exclusive to DDR, because it's not. |
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Reenee
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Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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| 629. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the ITG fanboy above with the biased "facts" needs a name change and an exemption from this discussion. |
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FTrain108
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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| 630. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Disconnected airSpirit wrote: | Excuse you, FTrain.
I suck at DDR. I'm really not that good at ITG either, I can't pass 10-footers. Is ITG not for me?
People like you are why we have ITG-hating DDR fanboys. You know, the ones that go around saying ITG is elitist and only for the best players? Obviously, it's not, as I play on Hard 80% of the time and I absolutely LOVE ITG.
Also, not only can music not be gay and you should never use that as a derogatory term, but I happen to like both ITG and Jpop. There's nothing wrong with it.
By the way; when ITG goes kaboom in a few years and ITG7 is everywhere, you'll be quite sick of hearing Vertex^7 and !?.??!...!!?!?!. Don't act as if the 'songs getting old' virus is exclusive to DDR, because it's not. |
Alright, Im sorry for calling Jpop gay cause i know that some people enjoy some music that i dont like and i like music others dont. But all that aside, I suppose ITG does apply to all DDR lovers, beginners and eilitists alike. I am aware that songs do get old eventually, but we havnt seen any new DDR songs for a very long time, and right now ITG is already making a new rendition of their arcade version, thats loyalty to the fans. I'm trying not to be just some random ITG fanboy because i know it is just a different form of DDR and ive been playing konami's for a few years, but theres a ton of biased opinions against ITG because ddr was first.
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 631. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| FTrain108 wrote: | | i think konami is afraid of a little friendly competition (probably because they know now that ITG is becomming more popular due to more challenging steps and "fresh" songs, plus all the mods make its 100x more fun) |
Ok, not to be rain on anyone's parade, but is it really fair at this point to overstate ITG's popularity? Yes, it's growing among the type of people who love dancing/rhythm games enough to be posting on boards like this, but we represent a very small percentage of the overall group of videogamers who play these games. Honestly, I'd still gauge ITG's exposure and name recognition below Pump It Up, which is itself way behind DDR in terms of being a household name. Most people who know what DDR is still haven't seen ITG, much less heard of it, but it's somewhat more likely they've at least seen/heard of PUMP by now (it's been around for years). People still mistake the game in the shoe commercial featuring PUMP for DDR. ITG is yet no where near as popular as DDR right now, not when you include the entire population of dance game players, which most of these little online communities seem to instantly forget whenever they dictate "what songs a game should have," or "how difficult the songs should be," etc. If the ITG CS release comes together well, that will become, what I think will be, the real gauge of ITG's mass appeal. This is just my honest analysis of the situation, guys. No offense.
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havenslayer
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Location: Massena, NY (northern NY) |
| 632. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Its too bad that ITG has to go through all this, no matter what. Who knows, maybe in the end, konami will make some deal as to release the ITG songs, or ITG itself under konami. At least that way, something...sorta good can happen. I haven't gotten the chance to play, and it doesn't seem like THAT bad of a game, seriously. The same reason as to why I play pump it up, is the reason I want to try ITG, its something different. And its nice to see something new in the arena. But to be completely honest, Andimaro tried to be different. Roxor did go a bit far with.."replacing" the insides of a DDR unit. BUT, ITG2 has their own cabinet right? Im not sure about this myself, being a non-ITG player (yet). So if ITG2 has their own stuff, I don't see why konami is having a fit. Oh well. Hopefully something good will come out of this, and there will be no more ddr/piu/itg bullsh-it complaining. But as said previously, everything will get boring, and new things NEED to keep coming out. Its too bad Roxor and Konami couldnt end up working together...blah blah. |
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Jeffreyw
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: Spokane, WA |
| 633. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | FTrain108 wrote: | | i think konami is afraid of a little friendly competition (probably because they know now that ITG is becomming more popular due to more challenging steps and "fresh" songs, plus all the mods make its 100x more fun) |
Ok, not to be rain on anyone's parade, but is it really fair at this point to overstate ITG's popularity? Yes, it's growing among the type of people who love dancing/rhythm games enough to be posting on boards like this, but we represent a very small percentage of the overall group of videogamers who play these games. Honestly, I'd still gauge ITG's exposure and name recognition below Pump It Up, which is itself way behind DDR in terms of being a household name. Most people who know what DDR is still haven't seen ITG, much less heard of it, but it's somewhat more likely they've at least seen/heard of PUMP by now (it's been around for years). People still mistake the game in the shoe commercial featuring PUMP for DDR. ITG is yet no where near as popular as DDR right now, not when you include the entire population of dance game players, which most of these little online communities seem to instantly forget whenever they dictate "what songs a game should have," or "how difficult the songs should be," etc. If the ITG CS release comes together well, that will become, what I think will be, the real gauge of ITG's mass appeal. This is just my honest analysis of the situation, guys. No offense. |
Thats because ddr is in more places than piu or itg are. If ddr were replaced somewhere with a itg machine it would get just as much use as the ddr machine did. Maybe its just where I go but there are alot of people that just know it as that danceing game yet they still play it. Not to mention (this is just a guess I could be wrong) that there are probably more itg machines right now then there are piu machines in america. Maybe that would have something to do with it? Its undenyable though that ddr is more widely available then itg and piu are.
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runwithscizzors9
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Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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| 634. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| first off, konami in no way is scared by ITG, DDR is huge among america, if you say dou have DDR? people will know what you are talking about, if you say, do you know what ITG is? they will be like, what? itg? for the people browsing through target, they see Dance DAnce revolution Extreme!!! and they go yeah my friend has that! its so fun, i want to get it, and when they see In The Groove, they won't know what the heck that is, i like both games equally |
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Jeffreyw
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: Spokane, WA |
| 635. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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What you don't realize though is that konami is looking twards the future, not the present. Noone knows what itg is yet because it hasn't been out as long as ddr has been. But as more mixes of itg come out and more machines get replaced with it, the more people see it.
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 636. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffreyw wrote: | | Thats because ddr is in more places than piu or itg are. |
I know, that just supports the point I made above. DDR still has the most name recognition and overall populatiry.
| Jeffreyw wrote: | | If ddr were replaced somewhere with a itg machine it would get just as much use as the ddr machine did. |
Yes, and that's exactly how all ITG machines so far get any distribution and why Roxor is in hot water with Konami. They have been doing "brain surgery" on Konami's cabinets  It's kind of hard to judge what more people would play when ITG comes along and elimiates the competition by effectively "destroying" it.
| Jeffreyw wrote: | | Maybe its just where I go but there are alot of people that just know it as that danceing game yet they still play it. Not to mention (this is just a guess I could be wrong) that there are probably more itg machines right now then there are piu machines in america. Maybe that would have something to do with it? |
Perhaps, but around here, there are a lot more PUMP machines than DDR even. Yeah, that's a bit unusual, but I've seen PUMP around quite a bit in PA and here now in MN. To date I have still never seen an ITG machine, and it's not like I haven't been looking. I still think PUMP has much better name recognition and a larger fan base than ITG right now, but considering how both are still overshadowed by DDR, that isn't saying all that much.
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Cryptic
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Joined: 09 Aug 2002
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| 637. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Lawsuit |
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| Heffenfeffer wrote: | I dunno about this suit - as I've seen it go the opposite direction not too long ago. In 1999, Connectix unveiled Virtual GameStation, which was a PSOne emulator for Mac (and later Windows.) Essentally, it was reverse-engineered to run PSOne games, but they neither used nor disassembled PSOne boot code.
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Actually Connectix completely disassembled thed PSone boot ROM. THAT is why it worked so much better than Bleem! (which was created via black box reverse engineering).
| Catastrophe wrote: | Normally when you own something you can do whatever you want with it. Furthmore, arcade machines are converted all the time. However, dedicated arcade machines that are covered by patents are a special case. And RoXoR's BoXoR can only go into a DDR machine. You can't even put it into a PIU machine, a Technomotion machine, or any generic cabinet. And that's why Konami cares. This is unlike fighting game cabinets where the cabinet is not specific to the game. And it is unfair competition to hijack your competitors products.
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I wouldn't be so sure of that.
Yes, if ITG is being portrayed as a LICENSED and OFFICIAL Konami product then kick that puppy to the curb and shoot it with a shotgun. It's dead Jim.
But as long as it is clear that ITG is not a Konami product then it should be in the clear. There is nothing illegal about creating unlicensed software that runs on a closed hardware platform. This has already been decided in the courts. If it hadn't then you never would have seen Tengen NES games, Accolade Genesis game, cheat devices, etc.
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 638. Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Lawsuit |
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| Cryptic wrote: | | Catastrophe wrote: | Normally when you own something you can do whatever you want with it. Furthmore, arcade machines are converted all the time. However, dedicated arcade machines that are covered by patents are a special case. And RoXoR's BoXoR can only go into a DDR machine. You can't even put it into a PIU machine, a Technomotion machine, or any generic cabinet. And that's why Konami cares. This is unlike fighting game cabinets where the cabinet is not specific to the game. And it is unfair competition to hijack your competitors products.
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I wouldn't be so sure of that.
Yes, if ITG is being portrayed as a LICENSED and OFFICIAL Konami product then kick that puppy to the curb and shoot it with a shotgun. It's dead Jim.
But as long as it is clear that ITG is not a Konami product then it should be in the clear. There is nothing illegal about creating unlicensed software that runs on a closed hardware platform. This has already been decided in the courts. If it hadn't then you never would have seen Tengen NES games, Accolade Genesis game, cheat devices, etc. |
I wouldn't be so sure of THAT either. Those cases are nearing two decades old in many instances. Cheat devices will keep cropping up and game companies have just accepted this fact instead of fighting it. It really doesn't cut into game sales. What DOES cut into game sales are the unlicensed products. They could detract from first party game sales and they "get away" without paying the console patent owners licensing fees. Tengen was a big upstart back in the day, but they still died a quick death ultimately. Wisdom Tree (and all its other aliases) just made crappy games that no one wanted. Since then, there have hardly been ANY unlicensed games available. The closest you can get are bootleg copies of official games from Taiwan or Hong Kong, etc. (in other words, countries where it is notoriously hard to track down and prosecute bootlegers). Here in 2005, the government has been bullied into distrusting electronic information exchange by the music industry, which was infuriated that people were trading their "intellectual property," i.e. music without, paying outrageous CD prices. You know how many CHILDREN they have gone after for misusing technology and misappropriating other people's intellectual property?
How about Sony versus that weirdo company no one even heard of before they filed a suit against them for infringement on the "force feedback patent" they hold. I'm pretty sure Sony didn't copy off anyone when they designed the Dual Shock, but all signs currently point to Sony LOSING this case, even on appeal. Microsoft was also sued for infringement of the same patent and they settled. Multibillion dollar Microsoft SETTLED on a patent dispute. They didn't even TRY to throw some money out of it to see if they could win. Obviously this company has a strong case based just on the ownership of a patent, despite the fact that it's obvious Sony and Microsoft designed their controlers independent of this knowledge.
Finally, the argument that Konami and Roxor is akin to Nitendo and Tengen is fundamentally flawed. ITG is NOT just software that you load on a System 573. Konami's entire DDR cabinet is pretty much a patented unit, board et all. An ITG Boxor essentially replaces part of Konami's hardware, but it doesn't even work unless it's leaching off other parts of Konami's hardware. Roxor played Frankenstein, mixing and matching body parts, many of which Konami holds the rights to, without Konami's permission, to make money for themselves. Do you think Tengen would have gotten away with it back in the day if its games required you to remove the NES's main CPU and replace it with their own to play the game? That's far, FAR less likely.
Seriously, I don't think Roxor is going to be able to slide by on a "Tengen" defense, not in this political climate.
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Mr. A
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Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Location: INTERNET |
| 639. Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| ITG sucks my left nut wrote: | | well your opinion doesnt count, and thats not my opinion, its a fact |
Sock puppet account?
| Encyclopedia Dramatica wrote: |
A Troll, typically a 'friend' or alternate incarnation of a Not-Bob. A sock puppet is an account created by one side taking part in a flame war. The sock puppet account then repeats the arguments made by one side for the appearance of "popular support". |
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