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Icee of AUG
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Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Location: Check the name, Georgia |
520.  Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Yeah this sucks. I see no future for Roxor anymore.
So I guess this means no ITG home version. |
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zaphod
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Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Location: Hayward, CA |
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Loogaroo
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Location: Glendale, CA |
| 522. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| SineNomine wrote: | | 3 People doomsaying to the effect of "Konami is gonna win this lawsuit and take Roxor for every penny it's worth, then continue to shun us" need to consider something: It is very unlikely that this suit will actually be brought to trial. Unless RoXoR has an argument that none of us have fathomed, they know that they have been caught dead-to-rights. I would guess that Konami brought all of their offense on their complaint partially to get Roxor to agree to a settlement. With as open and shut as this is, Roxor would be pretty foolish to take it to court. What a settlement would entail, I won't even speculate. |
If Konami's case is that iron-clad, why would they even bother settling - especially one of their requests is for RoXoR to pay all their court costs? Why wouldn't they just say "DDR is ours, you stole it, therefore you die"?
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zaphod
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Yeehaw McKickass
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Location: Chicago Area |
| 524. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Nice summary there Zaphod. That's about the most consice way of putting it I could think of.
And just as a reminder, this type of suit is almost always settled out of court, and will probably just end with Roxor ceasing production of boxor units and paying Konami some money.
Remember, Andamiro is building cabinets for Roxor for ITG2.
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Tsuri
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Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
| 525. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Besides, who wouldn't rather play ITG2 on a modified Pump it Up GX machine over those old low res DDR machines?  I like ITG but DDR is fading... well it was fading when I started playing it last year... I played other music games before it which made it seem inferior. |
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valence
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Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Location: Brunswick Zone in Naperville, yeah 20 cent mondays |
| 526. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I would like to officially disagree with konami on this one. FOR GODS SAKE IF YOU WONT LET ANYONE MAKE A DDR ARCADE FOR AMERICA THEN MAKE IT YOURSELF PLEASSEEE
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Some days you come home from work tired, and say to yourself, "God, I just have to dance" |
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 527. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Loogaroo wrote: | | Wolfman Jake wrote: | | And of course, there is always still hope with ITG2 and the new cabinet that Andamiro is producing for Roxor. |
Konami wants RoXoR - a fledgling company, mind you - to pay them all the profits they made off of ITG, plus triple punitive damages just for good measure. How is RoXoR going to have any money left to do anything with ITG? |
We have no idea what sum of money Konami would agree to in a settlement nor what the courts would award Konami after winning the trial. I don't think it's common in a law suit for the plaintiff to be awarded everything they ask for, so stay tuned. Yes, it looks realistically bad for Roxor, but don't give up hope until we really know the final outcome.
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zaphod
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Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Location: Hayward, CA |
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Alezay
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
| 529. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
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I have a question. Why would Konami sue if modifying the cabinets is done by arcade owners? Is it just because arcade owners have no other choice, therefore the BoXoR being a "illegal mod" so to speak of Konami's cabinets? I'm a little confused.
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SineNomine
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Location: Boise, ID |
| 530. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Loogaroo wrote: | | If Konami's case is that iron-clad, why would they even bother settling - especially one of their requests is for RoXoR to pay all their court costs? Why wouldn't they just say "DDR is ours, you stole it, therefore you die"? |
I can think of a couple of reasons that Konami would want to settle.
1) They save a lot of face, PR wise.
- You have to appreciate the situation they are in. There's really no argument (as you yourself conceed) that the patent rights of Konami have been trampled on here. So they are stuck between the choice to either get the money that they BY LAW are owed (and look like a troll in the process) or sit there and let RoXoR trade on their names. My best case scenario for Konami would be scaring RoXoR into settling with them, and then getting a cut of their action (the money they owe them), and letting the community know that they weren't out to destroy them, but to get the money they deserved for their patent.
2) It might be the best way to make money.
- Say they take it to court, and they get every penny of what RoXoR is worth. That's alright I suppose, but you know where the real money would be? Settling out of court and letting RoXoR just keep on doing what they do, but giving them a cut of the profits. Granted, the lawsuit doesn't mention the console game, or ITG2, but that doesn't exclude those from being part of an out-of-court settlement. I'm not really sure of the legality of that though. It's an intricate issue, because part of the lawsuit of Andimiro could apply here as well. How close is the actual gameplay to ITG to DDR (pretty close)? Is that patented too? Perhaps a settlement could involve a cut of the profits of all ITG games, in exchange for not filing a suit over gameplay (similar to the PUI suit) as well. I dunno, the last part of that is purely speculation.
Konami has a lot of motivation to do this thing. And before anyone questions the ethics of Konami hijacking a certain percentage of Roxor's ITG profits, how isn't that analogous to what Roxor was doing to Konami? Seems to me that turnabout is fair play.
And furthermore (and here's some more speculation), what about the scenario I laid out before? Sure, it's extremely unlikely, but what if Konami is about to announce some action in the US Arcade market? I would be pretty pissed if I was about to make an annoucement like that, only to see someone trying to release a product that hijacked my (patented) product, and at substantially less than I was trying to sell my new hardware. Now, don't mistake this for me thinking that Konami IS going to announce a new arcade machine, but if they were, that would be yet another independant reason to file a lawsuit and at least slow Roxor down. |
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DDRNemesis
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Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Location: Bryan, OH |
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mikieson
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Joined: 14 Nov 2003
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| 532. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Alezay wrote: | | mikieson wrote: | | I dont know anything about ITG but it seems like a big DDR ripoff. |
How many times has this been said? ITG is not a DDR ripoff. It's a DDR KILLER.
However, I still think Konami only wants money and sees the cabinet thing to be a "pay off big" thing. It's not like Konami has really made anything special over the past few years. Mostly disappointments. I'd be happy if they left the game market for good. Is Konami as a whole suing RoXoR? Or is it a certain extension?
Oops, sorry I didn't read. Konami of Japan.....proof they hate North America. They see a game that's NEVER coming their way that destroys their game, and they jump on it. B I T C H E S. |
It cant be a killer if its the same damn game in someone elses cabinet....Use your head!!! |
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Ace Of Hearts
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere |
| 533. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| zaphod wrote: | one more thing.
KONAMICORP: How are you gentlemen. All your Boxor are belong to us! You are on the way to destruction! |
No, no, no. If you're gonna do an AYB parody, you gotta take it all the way.
In AD 2005, war was beginning.
[The typical BOOM! sound is heard as we see a large package dropped into the Roxor mailbox.]
[The view switches to inside Roxor HQ.]
Roxor Big-Wig: What happen? 
Roxor PR: Somebody set up us the lawsuit. 
Roxor PR: ...We get signal!
Roxor Big-Wig: What? 
Roxor Big-Wig: Main screen turn on. 
[The main screen turns on and displays the image of Naoki Maeda.]
Roxor Big-Wig: It's you!! 
Naoki: How are you gentlemen? 
Naoki: All your Boxor are belong to us. 
Naoki: Your first arcade version is on the way to destruction. 
Roxor Big-Wig: What you say!? 
Naoki: It has no chance to survive - make your time. 
Naoki: Ha ha ha!! 
[The main screen turns off and the Roxor company looks at each other.]
Roxor Big-Wig: Move In The Groove 2 with original not-DDR cabinet. 
Roxor PR: You know what you doing!
Roxor Big-Wig: Move In The Groove 2...
Roxor Big-Wig: For great justice!!
Fix'd.
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Last edited by Ace Of Hearts on Fri May 13, 2005 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Wolfman Jake
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Anthony of TGA
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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| 535. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Ace of Hearts,
<3
TPMWR |
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Disconnected airSpirit
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: Careeeeeeeeee, North Caroline In The City |
| 536. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mikieson wrote: | | It cant be a killer if its the same damn game in someone elses cabinet....Use your head!!! |
Or, y'know, it's a totally different game using the only cabinet available for the type of game.
Think before you post. |
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Ace Of Hearts
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere |
| 537. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Wolfman: I can't believe I missed that. I have edited it. (I call people on it all the time myself, and then the one time I need to know it, I blow it myself. ARGH!) Can you love me now?
Honestly, though, I think that's exactly what's gonna happen: Roxor's just gonna pay off Konami and launch ITG 2 and not worry about anything.
TPMWR: Thank you. I...love you too?
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Yeehaw McKickass
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Location: Chicago Area |
| 538. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| DDRNemesis wrote: | | valence wrote: | | I would like to officially disagree with konami on this one. FOR GODS SAKE IF YOU WONT LET ANYONE MAKE A DDR ARCADE FOR AMERICA THEN MAKE IT YOURSELF PLEASSEEE |
Once again this has to be said. In order for a new arcade DDR game to come out Japan has to have interest in it. Konami has always made their best mixes for Japan and besides USA doesnt even have an arcade Konami division. |
See, for all we know they could be working on a new mix specifically for the U.S. over there, and just be keeping their mouths shut about it. I know it sounds odd, but it's possible.
Konami not having an arcade division here won't stop them from releasing a game through Betson (see: Warzaid), or even something as drastic as paying Andamiro to build them some nice modified GX cabintes like Roxor is doing with ITG and leaving distrobution to them.
But the chances of this are pretty slim, and I'm not holding my breath for it.
I'll just watch for something at E3.
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nayten
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
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| 539. Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Alezay wrote: | | I have a question. Why would Konami sue if modifying the cabinets is done by arcade owners? Is it just because arcade owners have no other choice, therefore the BoXoR being a "illegal mod" so to speak of Konami's cabinets? I'm a little confused. |
I'm a little confused by your post.
No matter how many caveats Roxor has put into it's arcade manuals for ITG, it does not make the modifaction any more right. Telling the customers to remove every trace of DDR/Konami from the machine and dance pad is about as effective as telling a 14 year old in 1999 to remove his Super Mario World rom after 24 hours if it isn't for "educational" use. It lets the defendant point fingers for a couple of minutes, in hope that the plaintiff will lose their case with the defendant and will seek out the individual situations instead. Why would Konami exhaust the resources in searching for every single ITG Box and demand it's destruction and compensation for damages, when the supplier is clearly breaking copyright laws? It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever to go after the little arcade shops when the violating company itself has the ability to end the production of the kit, as well as the possibility of a monetary reimbursement. Roxor committed a crime, and they knew it. Why else would they be producing ITG2 with it's own unique cabinet? They obviously knew this day has been comming, so I'm sure they have a course of action planned, perhaps questioning the legitimacy of the units at hand. Konami is still likely to win, however.
My own worry is that Konami will go after games that feature the same style of gameplay as DDR. If you look through the Attached patent forms on the main page, you can see a few examples of the gameplay style (the sketches are pretty funny, ha) as well as charts outlining the basics of the game's function. Who's to say that Konami wont go after all versions of ITG at a later date?
Really, I don't think Konami's intentions are to cripple Roxor, but just to clearly distinguish their own game. Like many have stated, there's nothing for us to do except wait for the outcome. I'm happy I put off preordering ITG PS2.  |
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