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PedanticOmbudsman
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Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Fayetteville, AR |
440.  Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Takeru51 wrote: | | ROXOR. DID. SOMETHING. ILLEGAL. |
That's your opinion. I don't think you'd find any judge or reputable lawyer who'd agree with you on that. Unfortunately, in our legal system, a company with a lot of money can basically shut down anybody who says or does something they don't like, regardless of whether they have a legal leg to stand on or not. Most individuals and small companies don't have the money to fight even a 100% frivolous lawsuit from a megacorp, so they generally are forced to do whatever the big company wants them to do, even if they've done nothing wrong. Yes, this could fairly be called legally-protected terrorism and blackmailing, but that's how the legal system works.
| Uiru wrote: | | Poor Roxor broke a law and are now in Konami's crosshairs for it. |
That's your opinion. I don't think you'd find any judge or reputable lawyer who'd agree with you on that. Unfortunately, in our legal system, a company with a lot of money can basically shut down anybody who says or does something they don't like, regardless of whether they have a legal leg to stand on or not. Most individuals and small companies don't have the money to fight even a 100% frivolous lawsuit from a megacorp, so they generally are forced to do whatever the big company wants them to do, even if they've done nothing wrong. Yes, this could fairly be called legally-protected terrorism and blackmailing, but that's how the legal system works.
I'm going to microwave my Extreme US game when I get home (CDs and DVDs put on beautiful light shows when you nuke them in the microwave... just don't do it for more than a few seconds because you can start a fire) and never buy any Konami product until such time as they drop this baseless lawsuit and issue a sincere apology. And hopefully ITG2 will have some better stepcharts so that I can quit arcade DDR also. |
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 441. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Uiru wrote: | | I liked the 'deluding themselves or fooling us' statement made God knows how far back, because it's true. |
Thank you, Uiru, but my question has fallen on mostly deaf ears. Emotions are running WAY too high over this whole thing. ITG fans, you can love the game, hope all you want Roxor will dodge this bullet, but still admit that they screwed up big time on this. These are not mutually exclusive propositions. Konami is doing what any smart company would do. Roxor shouldn't have cut corners on the cabinet thing.
Also, to anyone wishing to donate money for Roxor's cause, that's noble but I sincerely hope you'll soon realize what a drop of water in the ocean that will be. These proceedings will cost Roxor a LOT of money. You can give them your heartfelt support, but I'd hold on to your money. It's not going to help them that much at all.
For everyone screaming "boycott Konami" and "Konami had it coming since they didn't give us a new arcade mix in 2.5 years", get a grip, plesae. A few dozen screaming fanboys won't mean squat; look at how well DDR EX US sold despite how much you apparantly hate it. Konami owes you nothing. They're a business, not a charity. Not producing a new product doesn't mean someone else can infringe on theirs. Konami has every right to go after the "little guy" if the "little guy" breaks the law against them. That doesn't make Konami "evil." Do you really think there are a bunch of Konami execs in Japan right now getting off on holding Roxor accountable for patent infringement or something? Yikes.
The very fact that you can get THIS worked up over a Coke's dancing game versus Pepsi in a Coke's can dancing game tells me that you are way too invested in a videogame, a hobby, a passtime. Your life will go on no matter what happens to Konami, DDR, Roxor, and/or ITG.
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Rancidfish
Trick Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA/Santa Cruz, CA |
| 442. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | | I'm going to microwave my Extreme US game when I get home (CDs and DVDs put on beautiful light shows when you nuke them in the microwave... just don't do it for more than a few seconds because you can start a fire) and never buy any Konami product until such time as they drop this baseless lawsuit and issue a sincere apology. And hopefully ITG2 will have some better stepcharts so that I can quit arcade DDR also. |
Y'know, if you want to hurt Konami, here's what I'd do. Sell the game for cheap outside your local Gamestop/EB/whatever, and tell anyone who's interested in buying it that you're selling it because you're going to get In the Groove anyway. That way, you both are denying Konami the money of a customer buying the game AND encouraging their customers to buy Roxor products (instead).
...however, that's just my devious self talking. It's not like I personally have anything out for Konami. *whistles innocently*
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Last edited by Rancidfish on Thu May 12, 2005 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Takeru51
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Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Location: Washington |
| 443. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| roxor is being sued because they created the same game that konami had. do some research on extreme 2, youll see that its very possible |
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Aaron_Kwok
Trick Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Location: Lubbock, TX |
| 444. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | Uiru wrote: | | I liked the 'deluding themselves or fooling us' statement made God knows how far back, because it's true. |
Thank you, Uiru, but my question has fallen on mostly deaf ears. Emotions are running WAY too high over this whole thing. ITG fans, you can love the game, hope all you want Roxor will dodge this bullet, but still admit that they screwed up big time on this. These are not mutually exclusive propositions. Konami is doing what any smart company would do. Roxor shouldn't have cut corners on the cabinet thing.
Also, to anyone wishing to donate money for Roxor's cause, that's noble but I sincerely hope you'll soon realize what a drop of water in the ocean that will be. These proceedings will cost Roxor a LOT of money. You can give them your heartfelt support, but I'd hold on to your money. It's not going to help them that much at all.
For everyone screaming "boycott Konami" and "Konami had it coming since they didn't give us a new arcade mix in 2.5 years", get a grip, plesae. A few dozen screaming fanboys won't mean squat; look at how well DDR EX US sold despite how much you apparantly hate it. Konami owes you nothing. They're a business, not a charity. Not producing a new product doesn't mean someone else can infringe on theirs. Konami has every right to go after the "little guy" if the "little guy" breaks the law against them. That doesn't make Konami "evil." Do you really think there are a bunch of Konami execs in Japan right now getting off on holding Roxor accountable for patent infringement or something? Yikes.
The very fact that you can get THIS worked up over a Coke's dancing game versus Pepsi in a Coke's can dancing game tells me that you are way too invested in a videogame, a hobby, a passtime. Your life will go on no matter what happens to Konami, DDR, Roxor, and/or ITG. |
This is the single smartest thing I've heard in this whole slew of posts. I applaud you. I'm a BIG fan of ITG, but that doesn't mean Konami doesn't have a case against Roxor games. I may not agree with it, but that's not the point. The point is Konami made several legitimate arguments, and even though I believe ITG to be a superior product, Konami has every right in the world to protect its business interests by suing Roxor if it beileves that Roxor has done something wrong to their company.
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 445. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | | Takeru51 wrote: | | ROXOR. DID. SOMETHING. ILLEGAL. |
That's your opinion. I don't think you'd find any judge or reputable lawyer who'd agree with you on that. |
Um...right...yeah. You'd be surprised.
| PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | | I'm going to microwave my Extreme US game when I get home (CDs and DVDs put on beautiful light shows when you nuke them in the microwave... just don't do it for more than a few seconds because you can start a fire) and never buy any Konami product until such time as they drop this baseless lawsuit and issue a sincere apology. And hopefully ITG2 will have some better stepcharts so that I can quit arcade DDR also. |
I hope your personal show of distate for good business practice is worth buying a new microwave. As pretty a light show as it would be to nuke optical media, you're going to damage the magnetron in your microwave, shorting its life span by quite a bit. I wish I had that kind of money to throw around, nuking CDs and throwing out good microwaves...
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Wolfman Jake
Last edited by Wolfman Jake on Thu May 12, 2005 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Synaesthesia
Trick Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Crushing all deceivers, smashing non-believers |
| 446. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Rancidfish wrote: | *sigh* Here, this doesn't really make sense, because it's economically infeasible. No-one is going to buy bottle after bottle of Coke and refill them with Pepsi. It'd be more like emptying out a Coca-Cola soda machine, at a restaurant (since an arcade is more like a fast-food restaurant than a supermarket), filling it up with Pepsi products, and changing all the labels, etc.
But there, I think many soda machines are generic products. I've worked at a movie theatre that sold a mix of Coca-Cola and Pepsi sodas. The DDR machine, on the other hand, is patented. (I believe the exact design of Coca-Cola bottles is patented as well, so that's a good analogy for that one reason...)
And anyway, Pepsi and Coca-Cola both suck anyway, so why bother to argue? *drinks his root beer* |
I think that analogy wasn't meant to be taken literally, only the basic concept of it.
| PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | | That's your opinion. I don't think you'd find any judge or reputable lawyer who'd agree with you on that. Unfortunately, in our legal system, a company with a lot of money can basically shut down anybody who says or does something they don't like, regardless of whether they have a legal leg to stand on or not. Most individuals and small companies don't have the money to fight even a 100% frivolous lawsuit from a megacorp, so they generally are forced to do whatever the big company wants them to do, even if they've done nothing wrong. Yes, this could fairly be called legally-protected terrorism and blackmailing, but that's how the legal system works. |
It's really not an opinion. It's fairly self-evident patent infringement. I'm not exactly sure where your ideas of this being a matter of opinion/matter of free speech come into play.
I want ITG as much as the next guy, but Roxor really made some bone-headed moves in their legal department. Maybe I'm confusing what I think with what I want, but I think this is just Konami's way to make a quick (albeit well-deserved) dollar from Roxor, while simultaneously implying, "We mean business, and we're watching you very closely. Stay in line." I'll be curious to see how the situation looks this time next week (and if the thread is still mutating at this rate). |
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tyler2dx
Trick Member
Joined: 09 May 2004
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| 447. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm posting from disneyland Inoventions, and they have a new ddr here, so that is most likely the reason for the lawsuit. |
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Twisted Silence
Trick Member
Joined: 22 May 2002
Location: Pensacola, FL |
| 448. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Really, did no one see this coming?
Serves Roxor right for putting awful music on ITG, anyway.
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YOU SUPPOSED TO ACT UP RUNNING WITH A BLACK AND FUCKIN MILD |
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Alezay
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: Looking At The Sky..... |
| 449. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is worthless now.
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Disconnected airSpirit
Trick Member
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: Careeeeeeeeee, North Caroline In The City |
| 450. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Twisted Silence wrote: | Really, did no one see this coming?
Serves Roxor right for putting awful music on ITG, anyway. |
......
no. |
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Jeffreyw
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: Spokane, WA |
| 451. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Twisted Silence wrote: | Really, did no one see this coming?
Serves Roxor right for putting awful music on ITG, anyway. |
Do you want to get flamed?
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diddrstrait
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 452. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Takeru51 wrote: | | roxor is being sued because they created the same game that konami had. do some research on extreme 2, youll see that its very possible |
Roxor is being sued on the terms of the legal complaint filed. Please pay attention, this has nothing to do with the software or gameplay of ITG/DDR. This lawsuit is (according to the documents) 100% hardware based.
what does a console game have to do with arcade cabinets?
and to the person that said something about the "new DDR at disneyland", are you absolutely certain that it isn't one of the billion crappy bootleg DDR games (or maybe a console version, since that's what Disney World has in tomorrowland). |
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Unknown Gamer
Trick Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Location: San Diego, CA |
| 453. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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I would actually argue the "music" thing up to a point.
Roxor used a number of E-ROTIC and MISSING HEART songs that I loved and actually managed not to completely f*ck up the cuts. Too bad I can't say the same for some of the other tracks in the game or the steps actually used in the cuts that I mentioned for that matter. MOUTH is forever ruined for me now. *sobsob*
Anyway, whatever... I love my new sig! I hope I can use it!  |
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Jeffreyw
Trick Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: Spokane, WA |
| 454. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I wish this thread wasn't so opinionated. 
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Sk37ch
Trick Member
Joined: 02 May 2004
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| 455. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| dieKatze88 wrote: | | S1N3d dW17 wrote: | | Sk37ch wrote: | | Theres even an arcade in Long Island, NY, that removed their extreme machine because on Extreme it says "For Distribution In Japan Only" or something like that. |
Which? |
Yeah we have to laugh at these people |
I hope the "people" you are referring to isnt me, because im positive that theres an arcade in LI that did this.
It has a PIU machine in it...Jillians or something? Maybe thats what it was called. I could be wrong. Sined, youre from LI so you would know better than i would. |
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Plautus
Trick Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
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| 456. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DDRNemesis wrote: | | This is getting way out of hand. That would be funny though if Konami bought RoXor and started to produce ITG as a seperate game to DDR! |
I entertained this fantasy too, and didn't think PR would be too much of a factor since the number of people who have bought Extreme for PS2 dwarfs the number of people who have heard of ITG. Imagine the next home DDR mixes based off the StepMania engine 
I'd hope for this, if I thought Konami would do something worthwhile with it, especially since my biggest problem with the home DDR mixes so far have been interface-based, with important features appearing or missing apparently at random. I really don't care too much about the songs, but the reason I pre-ordered ITG was that I'm excited about interface improvements, and not just the mods.
Also, in this scenario the bits in the complaint about ITG diluting their IP with their inferior product would be even funnier.
| PedanticOmbudsman wrote: | | I'm going to microwave my Extreme US game when I get home (CDs and DVDs put on beautiful light shows when you nuke them in the microwave... just don't do it for more than a few seconds because you can start a fire) and never buy any Konami product until such time as they drop this baseless lawsuit and issue a sincere apology. And hopefully ITG2 will have some better stepcharts so that I can quit arcade DDR also. |
I'm disappointed with Extreme too, and I've preordered ITG and would rather RoXoR have a long-term future, but this seems a little bit too much like burning two twenties at the altar of Konami hate. Maybe I'll microwave a CD I don't care about now, though 
| BadMotherFucker wrote: | | I'm posting from disneyland Inoventions, and they have a new ddr here, so that is most likely the reason for the lawsuit. |
What is this about?
Anyone else think that it's funny how a good deal of the posts now are along the lines of "only stupid people who don't contribute anything post in this thread now"?
Last edited by Plautus on Thu May 12, 2005 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Disconnected airSpirit
Trick Member
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: Careeeeeeeeee, North Caroline In The City |
| 457. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Honestly, the 'leet' players wanting the ITG fanboys to be quiet are more annoying than the relatively tame fanboys. You're not smarter or better than anyone, you're just being an ass. Both of the sigs going around are stupid. |
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Tsuri
Trick Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
| 458. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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From the bit I skimed over this crap... it seems as if Konami is sueing them just because "We don't want Roxor and Konami on the same machine! They did not cover them up! People are confusing our name and game with theirs" Which is damn funny...
Last edited by Tsuri on Thu May 12, 2005 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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diddrstrait
Trick Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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| 459. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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looking at the machine locations guide, it seems the dude who is talking about a "new" DDR mix at innoventions in Disneyland has fallen prey to the bootleg that is Megamix.
Now, about that whole "the target audience is confusing ITG with a Konami product" bit... well I guess I don't have to comment further about the absurdity of it all when you look at products like "megamix" and "extreme plus"  |
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