Trouble in Groove-land

[toady007]

Either RoXor's legal team is wrong or In The Groove is actually legal. Either way, RoXor consulted lawyers before making anything who told them that it was legal. I'm tired of people calling RoXor lazy or stupid, they obviously were told it was not a patent violation (possibly on some technicality), and then produced units from there. It's completely possible their patent lawyer(s?) was wrong, however RoXor employees for the most part are concerned with making games and leaving professionals to figure out the legal work.
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[yyr]

[Sinistar]

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but this suit seems like it would be akin to modding kits for cars. The comparison would be Ford or Chevrolet or Mazda suing kit companies because the kits, when applied to vehicles owned by consumers, would give the car a possibly inferior presence/appearance while still sporting the Ford/Chevy/Mazda logos.

On that purely simplistic level, it would seem that Konami's argument regarding mark dilution would be meaningless. Wouldn't it be equally bad for people to think a Mazda comes stock with a badly bolted spoiler and poorly applied appliques? And yet, kits are freely available for several makes and models of vehicles. The same should, I would think, apply to RoXoR selling kits to modify DDR machines. As long as RoXoR does not sell pre-converted DDR machines as though they were ITG machines, I don't see why Konami would be able to use the sale of conversion kits as any kind of valid complaint.

Patent infringement, however, is a different beast. There is probably a good deal of weight there with which Konami can beat upon RoXoR, but only if they can prove that the Konami patent covers arrow-based dancing games themselves and not just the arcade cabinet and its components.
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CF cbox mods and more at the 'Pad'

[Plautus]

[Seifex]

I want to play ITG so badly, it looks great and US home releases for DDR have been, in my opinion, terrible. Based on the patent name of the DDR stuff, it sounds like they've completely patented the concept and execution of any dance-related game, but they don't go around sueing the buttocks off of Pump It Up. Is this going to apply to both the home versions and the arcade version? From the look of the complaint, it seemed to be based on the like leeching of DDR machines as hosts for ITG or something, but the thing I really care about is seeing ITG in my PS2.
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http://deadjournal.com/~seifex

[Sk37ch]

I understand the whole "Konami are sore losers" argument. But maybe its more like they were so focused on their Japanese products that they figured, as dumb as it may sound, that DDR in America was only profitable through console game distribution.

I mean, aside from posts on DDR freak, what economic proof does Konami have that DDR pulls in juicy revenue when most people agree that about 85% (just a rough estimate) of the machines in the US are bootlegs? Konami certainly doesnt collect that money. Its like if i rent Fatal Frame II for PS2 from Blockbuster, which is made by Tecmo, and burn a copy for my friend and sell it to him for 10 bucks. Im sure somehow, Temco collects some kind of royalties from Blockbuster for being able to rent out their game, but me burning a copy for my friend wont get Tecmo anything.

Therefore, in general, before Roxor made In The Groove, Konami had no tangible evidence that DDR was popular in the arcade. In fact, maybe they figured it was dying or something because a) they closed their arcade divisions, and b) arcades in general arent doing too well. All of a sudden, a legit company produces a dancing game andhas figures to show how much money it makes (or some form of proof) and Konami actually see's the impact that 4-arrow dancing simulation has on America. This may very well be the case.

Having that said, its not like they are going to go toe-to-toe with Roxor. Thats a threat to Konami. They have all of these patents, and they are going to exercise them. Whether its fair or not. Legally they seem to be in the right. Ethically, which most of us can argue, they are in the wrong for NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO AMERICA. So they made a boo boo. Now maybe they'll wake up and smell the coffee.

I'd at least like to think it to be that way. If some of you are right and this is in fact a way for Konami to take money and run, then that would be pretty damn grimey. Lets be real here for a second. They could make tons of money off of DDR if they did their product some good. Tell me not, if DDR was made a sport or some sh!t, most of you DDRfreaks would start training immediately. DDR can be much more than what it is, but anything good that is DDR related is ILLEGAL. Theres even an arcade in Long Island, NY, that removed their extreme machine because on Extreme it says "For Distribution In Japan Only" or something like that. And while hardly anyone cares about that because Konami hasnt taken much action in suing privately owned arcades, it just goes to show that we get shafted when it comes to the real DDR community. Lets all hope that something positive comes out of this. Maybe they'll break a deal with Roxor and both companies can make their games, or join up or something. Personally, like i posted earier, ITG wouldnt exist if Konami was doing their job. H3ll, bootleg software and hardware wouldnt exist if Konami was doing their job. Yea, people can bootleg ITG, but is their a real need to? Theirs an abundance of it because Roxor is selling it. Konami doesnt even make machines anymore and if you wanted to purchase an extreme, it some is illegal to have it in the US.

What i want to know is, why the f*ck Europe is still getting mixes? We have to revert to having people juice up Stepmania and getting sued for it, and Italians and French people get to play legit Euromixes. Womp Womp.

[Lost_Sage]

[TCBCR.Toastercookie]

Good post, Sage. I'm glad there are at least some intelligent people on this board who know what they're talking about.

Remember kids, this lawsuit is about the use of ITG BoXors in already existing DDR MACHINES. This has nothing to do with home versions, and nothing to do with the anticipated new ITG2 cabinet. As long as RoXoR Games isn't crippled too much by this lawsuit, we should still see the release of those games.
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[AuntieM]

Just looked briefly at the patent and complaint and I have three comments:

First, I object to Konami implying that older adults do not play DDR (Section 27 of the complaint).

Two, which marks is the complaint referring to? I've wondered about the design of the arrows themselves. Do the attachments discuss the marks specifically?

Finally, I hope and pray that RoXor and ITG will flourish despite this. Konami needs some competition.
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[skie]

[Disconnected airSpirit]

Talk about it in your podcast, if you don't mind. I always forget to listen to the normal show :X

[sly rax]

[V4shTheStampede]

[Lost_Sage]

[djp -bemanistyle-]

[S1N3d dW17]

[dieKatze88]

[Wolfman Jake]

[Cutriss]

[skie]