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Plautus
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Joined: 17 Oct 2002
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4160.  Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| HyperStepz wrote: | i tried another psone controller, and i'm still having troubles. now it's like my left arrow is constantly being pressed, ie. i press right and it immediately triggers left again. i no longer have random button registers though. this is a controller/wiring issue again because my arrows are all taken apart right now as to make testing easier. i'd think the only reason it would do this would be both the left and ground contacts on the pcb are soldered together...but the naked eye can see that they aren't.
[/confusion]
Heffenfeffer:
i appreciate your input a lot. as for a soft pad, what make/model would you recommend? |
2 questions about this controller:
1) Do up-down jumps register OK?
2) looking at the PCB, do left and right really share a ground?
I ask because in making pads for Dreamcast, I ran across a couple 3rd party controllers (even my first set of dance pads!!!) that had as many as three "grounds," making it impossible to register right/left or up/down jumps. It sounds like you've got a short regardless, with left being constant, but the switching between right and left leads me to think that while testing your connections, it might be a good idea to make sure your controller is worth trying to salvage (i.e., if it really has a common ground for all the buttons). I've never seen this in a Playstation controller before, but it's a possibility.
As for a dance pad to take apart, I recommend the cheapest one available at GameStop. The added value in expensive pads is going to be in better pad bases/switches, not better controller electronics. But my problems with wiring have never included shorts or static buildup, so maybe someone else has a preferred brand to recommend  |
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Heffenfeffer
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Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Location: Las Cruces, NM |
| 4161. Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: It's dead, Jim. |
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| HyperStepz wrote: | i tried another psone controller, and i'm still having troubles. now it's like my left arrow is constantly being pressed, ie. i press right and it immediately triggers left again. i no longer have random button registers though. this is a controller/wiring issue again because my arrows are all taken apart right now as to make testing easier. i'd think the only reason it would do this would be both the left and ground contacts on the pcb are soldered together...but the naked eye can see that they aren't.
[/confusion]
Heffenfeffer:
i appreciate your input a lot. as for a soft pad, what make/model would you recommend? |
Welp, I think you've lost another controller due to static shock. To confirm, get a multimeter and test resistance between left and ground, and compare to another button (that you haven't soldered anything to) and ground. If left and ground is some low-hundredy Ohm amount (close enough to zero for the PS to think it's a short) and the other button is some amount of MegaOhms, then get a shovel and a priest, 'cause it's gone. I've tried the 'backup' approach (replacing Up with Triangle, Right with Circle, and so on, turning on Dance Play), but it didn't work as everything I soldered to eventually died after a few minutes of playing.
Which one to get...honestly, I don't think it matters. I got a used $20 Gamestop special from a friend that was taking up space in his closet. The important thing was that the PCB had "Dance Pad Controller" etched onto it - leading me to believe that it had some static protection above and beyond the standard PS controller. (Think about it - those things die of mechanical failure and not electronic failure even though the vast majority of people that use them play in socks on a carpet.) So either get one that no longer works due to mechanical failure, or head to Gamestop and get the store brand.
Good luck getting it to work! I was caught for about three months in this trap (I could only work on it during weekends) trying in vain to get my controller boards (five of them) to not die.
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slvrshdw
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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| 4162. Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | i appreciate your input a lot. as for a soft pad, what make/model would you recommend? |
i just got the cheapest one at gamestop..$20 :-/ ($20 gamestop brand)
it seems to be working just fine..its really small, and pretty easy to get the solder to stick to it
of course, i drill SMALL holes in each place and feed the wire thru so its easy to solder to it still 
ive been playing on my pad for probably 10 hrs and no troubles yet..*crosses fingers*
and im even using a ps2->xbox adapter so my pad is dual system 
| Quote: | | I think you've lost another controller due to static shock. |
i think i lost a controller to static too 
that was in the beginning when i didnt have a pad circuit board tho
in my experiences the controller do NOT work, but thats just me 
and just when i thought that my pad was done for once, i need to get the border attached...but thats not really "needed" really.
i just dont want to hurt myself..  so ill put it on later
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mikieson
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Joined: 14 Nov 2003
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| 4163. Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject: So its OK!!! |
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| So its ok to drill holes in the circuit pads from contollers? I have used the circuit pads out of soft pads and drilled holes in them. If I can drill holes in the controller circuit boards then that would help in my costs from now on. |
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Plautus
Trick Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
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| 4164. Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: So its OK!!! |
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| mikieson wrote: | | So its ok to drill holes in the circuit pads from contollers? I have used the circuit pads out of soft pads and drilled holes in them. If I can drill holes in the controller circuit boards then that would help in my costs from now on. |
Just so long as you don't break the traces. I used a 1/16" bit on the PCB for a controller, and now I can use it with my ddr pad and still use it as a regular controller.
However, if you have a board from a dance pad, or a cheapo controller where you don't mind losing functionality on the face buttons, drilling is more trouble than it's worth. Just clean the solder points with alcohol, hold the wires in place with tape (not the exposed bit that you're going to solder of course), and solder them down. I've done that a few times, then putting the whole thing back in the controller case without the magnets, just so the pcb has a protective shell again. |
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mikieson
Trick Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2003
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| 4165. Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject: Great!!! |
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| Hey thanks for the tips. Its easy to drill the boards from soft pads. Controllers are a little tricky but I will go at it....Thanks,Mike |
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HyperStepz
Trick Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Location: idaho falls, id |
| 4166. Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| well folks, everything is working perfectly now. unless i'm totally retarded, which i doubt. the diagram i was using shows opposite positions for the ground/direction. so i had the wire soldered to the left ground....quick resoldering and BAM! it works like a charm. it works excellent with and without shoes, great sensitivity, no ghost steps or anything. all is well in the world of my homemade ddr pad. thanks sinenomine. |
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stoli
Trick Member
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Location: Southern NH |
| 4167. Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JediJesseS wrote: | | The pad works great for a bit, and then the USB unmounts itself and stops working until I unplug it and plug it back in. This does not happen if I don't wear shoes while I play. |
I don't think we can blame all the electrical woes that guys are having on static buildup, but when you have a case like this where it works fine in bare feet and not with shoes, I think you can conclude that static buildup is certainly part, if not all, of the problem. In your case, Jesse, the charge is probably concentrating in the sheet metal panels on the top of your pad. The wood is isolating them from the floor and the charge has nowhere to go. When you play in bare feet, your body is absorbing enough of the charge so that the controller still works OK. Simple test to verify this:
Cut some small pieces of wire (4 per pad, about 2" each), just long enough to connect all the metal panels together. Either tape them down using electrical tape or use the corner screws to attach them. Keep in mind this is just a temporary test you are doing so there is no need to be pretty. Now, using another wire, attach one end to anywhere on the metal of your pad to the ground on the controller. Note, that the term "ground" is used very loosely in this thread. None of the arrow switch connections are actually "ground" as many users refer to them. At least they aren't on the MadCatz controllers that I used. - If you don't believe me, buy an Ohmmeter or continuity tester and connect one end to the controller board connection that says "GND" and the other end to the arrow button connections. You will see that there is infinite resistance - i.e. neither is ground.
I found that the easiest place to connect to ground (temporarily anyways) is the small metal tab on the side of the controller jack that plugs into the console. Not sure if all controllers have this, but the MadCatz Retro does.
After you have made all the connections, give it a whirl with shoes on. If it works, you know it was static and now you just need to make the same connections in a more permanent and preferably hidden manner. Also, instead of running the last wire to the tab on the side of the controller jack, find one on the controller board itself. GND is usually labelled somewhere. Obviously, an ohmmeter would be invaluable in this process.
-Stoli
Edit: Temporary GND connection. You will notice a small indentation (on the side of the controller jack) with a metal face. When you plug the jack into the console, there is a small tab on the console receptacle that connects to the metal face on the jack. To make a temporary connection to GND, jam the end of the wire between these two pieces of metal as you are plugging the jack into the console.
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daitenshi
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Joined: 11 May 2004
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| 4168. Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| hum, after having troubles with 4 cheapo-brand controllers I went a step up and bought the (unrecommended) official sony ps1 controller for 5 bucks. Wasn't too hard to solder to at all actually, and I haven't had any of the frying problems I had with the others. |
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Aflac
Trick Member
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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| 4169. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: So its OK!!! |
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| Plautus wrote: |
... Just clean the solder points with alcohol, hold the wires in place with tape (not the exposed bit that you're going to solder of course), and solder them down. I've done that a few times, then putting the whole thing back in the controller case without the magnets, just so the pcb has a protective shell again. |
Do you think you have a picture of your control board so that I can clarify what you did? please?
And does anyone have/can take a picture of a soldered-to gamestop control board? i have one but i'm not sure what all the connections are (its not labelled).
I think the big black strip in the middle is the ground, but i'm not sure... |
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Plautus
Trick Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
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| 4170. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: So its OK!!! |
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| Aflac wrote: | | Plautus wrote: |
... Just clean the solder points with alcohol, hold the wires in place with tape (not the exposed bit that you're going to solder of course), and solder them down. I've done that a few times, then putting the whole thing back in the controller case without the magnets, just so the pcb has a protective shell again. |
Do you think you have a picture of your control board so that I can clarify what you did? please?
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There's been a bit of refinement of technique since then, and the ones that I did that on are cemented shut, so much that I'll even think twice about trying to fix them if they ever conk out.
I'll try to be clearer, though.
First, I was talking about soldering circuit boards on hand controllers, not a board used in a dance pad.
DDRhomepad (I think), when talking about soldering controllers, mentioned drilling holes on the edges of the copper contacts you want to solder, so you can feed the wires in from the other side of the board. I'm saying that if you don't mind losing hand controller functionality (e.g., you've got all the buttons you need on your dance pad and aren't going to use the hand controller for anything else), you don't need to bother with drilling, just lay the ends of the wires on the contacts and solder them down. I mentioned the tape to make the soldering easier, and to prevent those wires from moving around after you solder. As for the magnets, hand controllers have little rubbery cups with magnets that close the switch when a button is depressed. If you're not going to be pressing buttons on the hand controller, you don't need the magnets anymore. The rest of the hand controller is still good as a shell or project box; I usually cut a hole in the shell for the connector cable and then screw the whole thing back together.
If you're using a controller board from a dance pad, however, I see no reason to drill. You've got nice big contacts on the board, just clean them and solder away.
For those having trouble with soldering, here are a couple good links:
If you do decide to drill, you will make contacts like this:
http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/elab/soldering.htm
Here are some nice soldering guides:
http://www.circuittechctr.com/guides/7-0.shtml |
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slvrshdw
Trick Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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| 4171. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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i think i can get a pic if u really need it..
all u really need to do is grab a wire about 2-3 inches with about 1/2" stripped from each side..
now test what each button does...
1 side of the wire is the center (ground), and the other end, to the other part of the board..
the very left and very right are start and select im pretty sure..
and when u test it, make a lil pic of it on a piece of paper for reference later on..you'll probably need it
| Quote: | | If you're using a controller board from a dance pad, however, I see no reason to drill. You've got nice big contacts on the board, just clean them and solder away. |
i drilled thru the cirucuit board anyway, becuz i didnt think of using tape, plus i wanted to make sure that the wires werent moving at all. 
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Aflac
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Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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| 4172. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| slvrshdw wrote: |
now test what each button does...
1 side of the wire is the center (ground), and the other end, to the other part of the board..
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eh? i don't really get what you're saying... |
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HyperStepz
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Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Location: idaho falls, id |
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Plautus
Trick Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
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| 4174. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Rock ON, man! Are those my arrows? If so, I'm pleased they look nice on a pad (and that someone's using them already!).
EDIT: Just took another look and they're different from mine. Where did you get them? If you did them yourself, would you mind posting them? |
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HyperStepz
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Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Location: idaho falls, id |
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Aflac
Trick Member
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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| 4176. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| HyperStepz wrote: | each contact is a split circle: one half is ground, the other is the contact for the corresponding button.
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oh. i guess my circuit board is different. heres a picture:
along the top row were the contacts. originally the buttons were taped onto the contacts, but i took that off. the big one in the middle was the one where all the bottom parts of the buttons were connected to, and the smaller ones to each side are where the individual buttons were connected to. but i don't see any ground... |
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Plautus
Trick Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
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| 4177. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Aflac wrote: | | HyperStepz wrote: | each contact is a split circle: one half is ground, the other is the contact for the corresponding button.
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oh. i guess my circuit board is different. heres a picture:
along the top row were the contacts. originally the buttons were taped onto the contacts, but i took that off. the big one in the middle was the one where all the bottom parts of the buttons were connected to, and the smaller ones to each side are where the individual buttons were connected to. but i don't see any ground... |
Yes, it is different, he was talking about a hand controller.
If you've still got the dance pad plastic sheets, it would be pretty helpful in identifying the contacts, just trace each of the copper leads to the trace on the plastic and find out which button it goes to, draw a little diagram for yourself, and from there you can make the right connection. If the one in the middle was connected to the bottom half of all the switches, that's what we've been calling "ground" in this thread.
I'd clean it with some alcohol and a soft brush before soldering. |
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Plautus
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Joined: 17 Oct 2002
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| 4178. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| HyperStepz wrote: | i'm pretty sure they are on the arrow links page. the only problem is they were off center, so i fixed them....in PAINT of all things. they ended up nice though. i'm sure yours will look just as good.
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Sounds like it paid off! Nice looking and works nice.
If I had known there were Afterburner arrows out there already I might not have made some; well, I'll check, maybe I'll prefer mine anyway. I think mine might be too large (the space the actual arrow takes up, I mean). We shall see. |
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slvrshdw
Trick Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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| 4179. Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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i think thats the same as mine..
but the ground IS THE BIG center one.
just connect a wire from the center one, and then touch the other end to one of the contacts.
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