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ark_keeper
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Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Location: Louisville, KY |
60.  Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Disconnected airSpirit wrote: | | No machine is illegal. Well, some are, but in general machines are bought in japan and then sold here, which is perfectly legal. |
I understand it's legal to sell them to the US, but I don't think it's legal to put them in public places for vending to make money. Otherwise, Disney would have machines other than Disney Rave and USA in its arcades. They did at one time, but removed it because they said it's illegal. If you personally bought it and used it for in home use in a private location free of charge, then it should be legal.
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T-Bone..
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Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Location: i love itg |
| 61. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| all i can say is, that konami are a bunch of panzies that cant take a little competition. and the only reason there doing this is because there going to make a new arcade mix anywayz. the machines arent even suposed t be over here and itg is an american game.... |
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Username Disallowed
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Location: Hi |
| 62. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Roar. You'd think Konami would've gone after the home version if they could...which probably means that they can't.
So we'll probably definitely see the home version of ITG. I hope I get my preorder at least.
Both DDR and ITG are awesome...because DDR is fun is the reason we ended up here. I am really happy to have an ITG right by me so I can play a lot. It's something fun and new. It's got all new songs. It's got a ton of mods.
I can't believe that there are still people who hate ITG. |
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jonathanjman
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Joined: 22 Mar 2005
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| 63. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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okay. Why do you think ddr started?? to make money. so here comes in the company that makes in the groove. And WOW what a great opportunity to make money because they see all these kids having fun in the arcades
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Insaner than j00
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Joined: 10 May 2005
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| 64. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| T-Bone.. wrote: | | all i can say is, that konami are a bunch of panzies that cant take a little competition. and the only reason there doing this is because there going to make a new arcade mix anywayz. the machines arent even suposed t be over here and itg is an american game.... |
Hey kids spot the contradiction in this post! |
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sherl0k
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Location: the internet |
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Arctic Wolves
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Canada |
| 66. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I just want my ITG home version, if this will have any impact on that.
I also find it somewhat amusing, considering that, from the start people have been skeptical about the legality of many aspects of ItG; though we have always been assured, in dodgey terms, that all legal issues were worked out. Guess they weren't.
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yyr
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Joined: 07 Mar 2002
Location: White Plains, NY |
| 67. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| jonathanjman wrote: | | okay. Why do you think ddr started?? to make money. so here comes in the company that makes in the groove. And WOW what a great opportunity to make money because they see all these kids having fun in the arcades and getting bored of DDR Extreme because it's over 2 years old already and konami isn't bothering to continue the series |
...fixed.
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sherl0k
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002
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Edible Bondage Tape
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Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Location: Kerri |
| 69. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Disconnected airSpirit wrote: | | The sherl0k Shuffle wrote: | | :O they patented that GOD DAMN BAR (insert flames here) |
That explains the strage shape of ITG2's...a friend of mine and I were discussing that bar and how awesome it would be for freestyle. </offtopic> |
i just realized something
if the company that makes the PIU machiens is making hte ITG 2 machnines
those bars are gonna be snapping off in like a week
| ark_keeper wrote: | | Disconnected airSpirit wrote: | | No machine is illegal. Well, some are, but in general machines are bought in japan and then sold here, which is perfectly legal. |
I understand it's legal to sell them to the US, but I don't think it's legal to put them in public places for vending to make money. Otherwise, Disney would have machines other than Disney Rave and USA in its arcades. They did at one time, but removed it because they said it's illegal. If you personally bought it and used it for in home use in a private location free of charge, then it should be legal. |
casue disneys company policy is gospal
ok now everyone
STOP GETTING MAD AT KONAMI
r0x0r violated the law
konami is looking for what in truth is a VERY leinent setalment
it was their designa nd machine first witha lot of expencive R&D work in it too
r0x0r just up and takes it
konami says he give us money for our hard work
wehre is the unfairness
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Last edited by Edible Bondage Tape on Wed May 11, 2005 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Heffenfeffer
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Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Location: Las Cruces, NM |
| 70. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject: Emulation and retrofitting: Big Company v. Little Company |
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I dunno about this suit - as I've seen it go the opposite direction not too long ago. In 1999, Connectix unveiled Virtual GameStation, which was a PSOne emulator for Mac (and later Windows.) Essentally, it was reverse-engineered to run PSOne games, but they neither used nor disassembled PSOne boot code.
Sony decided to sue them anyway, pretty sure that they would lose (since precedents were set that reverse-engineering was OK so long as no copyrighted material was used.) It took them a year to lose their case, but the thing was - they declared a preliminary injunction as well, and it was granted. By the time Connectix could sell VGS again, it was April 2000 and the PS2 had just come out, which severely reduced demand. They then sold the rights to the emulator to Sony for a song - Sony then dismantled it and said that no future support would be given.
I have to say that it was a really good emulator. It was both better and worse than actual hardware - worse because not all games worked properly (either with loads of glitches, or through situations like playing Time Crisis with no gun), but better because memory cards were saved as 128k documents, thus giving an nearly infinite amount. It was a worthwhile product offering competition in the PSOne arena. Not to mention it cost $40 when PSOnes were still $150. Sony took advantage of the legal system to bury a smaller company selling a legitimate product.
I really hope that Konami is not granted the preliminary injunction. If they are, then there will be no more ITG upgrade kits distributed until the lawsuit ends, which could take months. Thus, RoXoR would have no attractively-priced arcade product to sell. Throw on a quick "Oh, and the PS2 version should have an injuction as well, since it's exactly the same thing," and RoXoR could pretty much just get sieged out of business by this lawsuit.
I'm pulling for RoXoR on this one.
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snickers1127â¶â
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Redding/Stockton, CA |
| 71. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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This could cause big problems for Red Octane too if Konami gets their way... This is the first game they are trying to publish. If this falls through, it could be big trouble, and Red Octane could lose big $$$
I want my ITG! 
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Arctic Wolves
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Canada |
| 72. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The sherl0k Shuffle wrote: | | This has NOTHING to do with the home version. This has NOTHING to do with the legality of ITG itself. This has to do with Roxor taking DDR cabinets and putting ITG into them. This applies ONLY to the ITG1 cabinets, and has NOTHING to do with the ITG2 cabs that Andamiro is producing. |
Isn't that what people have been discussing for four pages? This is why I said many aspects of ItG. And yes, I believe that putting ItG on DDR cabinets is indeed an aspect of ItG. And do you know for sure the fate of future ItG home versions? No? Well, just because this particular issue doesn't deal with the home versions, it's odd that Konami would mention them in the article. You don't know where this will lead, and that's also why I said "if this will have any impact on that." Who knows what will come of this? No one. And where did I mention ItG2?
I'm just musing. You can feel free to get back to the absolute mountains of intelligent posts I'm finding here.
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LET ME SHOW YOU THEM
Vivid Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Location: Mountain View/Sunnyvale CA |
| 73. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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NJ Konami..thanks for shitting on your american fans again..I'll just stay with my boxor since Konami is too busy jerking off to make another music. If that tanks, we've already made one sm cabinet 
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| theficionado wrote: | | Seriously, they should make some sort of spray for you. |
Last edited by LET ME SHOW YOU THEM on Wed May 11, 2005 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Disconnected airSpirit
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Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: Careeeeeeeeee, North Caroline In The City |
| 74. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jonathanjman wrote: | | okay. Why do you think ddr started?? to make money. so here comes in the company that makes in the groove. And WOW what a great opportunity to make money because they see all these kids having fun in the arcades |
Because businesses only exist because they want to make money. Right. Go away. |
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goodtimesddr
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Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Location: Temporary secret IIDX lair in Providence. |
| 75. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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The original DDR cabinet is a patented product. ITG designed a product that is meant to be used on a DDR cabinet. However, ITG never did get permission to use the DDR cabinet in anyway or form.
It makes perfect sense how Konami would be taking Roxor to court.
The only thing we have to worry about, is who will win in the court.
Forget about home versions, and ITG2. If Roxor loses this legal battle, they could go bankrupt, and that will be end!
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Catastrophe
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Joined: 04 Mar 2002
Location: Worcester, MA |
| 76. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: Patent |
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| CNLohr wrote: | | I mostly believe it is over what Roxor did (by reverse engineering previous cabinets). |
Reverse engineering is totally legal most of the time. Reverse engineering a patent makes no sense, since the details of the device are disclosed in the patent. (And patents are available to the public.) And in exchange for making the patented knowledge available to the public, the patent holder gains the right to determine exactly how the patent will be used.
What happened here, is that RoXoR started 'hijacking' DDR cabinets for ITG. This is totally uncool for several reasons:
1) You're destroying DDR cabinets. Installing Mortal Kombat on a Donkey Kong cabinet will get you sent to the very bottom of hell, too. (Earlier if I catch you.  )
2) Konami's patent gives them the exclusive right to dictate how their invention is used. This especially includes modifications and non-minor repairs. Konami's permission is technically needed for every SM and ITG conversion kit out there. If this seems extreme, then you don't know how patent law works.
3) When DDR is converted into ITG, casual players become confused. Because now we have people saying that ITG is a DDR upgrade. And since ITG'd DDR cabinets still have the same look as a DDR cabinet, people could reasonably assume that ITG is another Bemani game. And of course it isn't. (This is probably where Konami is getting their trademark complaint from.)
Normally when you own something you can do whatever you want with it. Furthmore, arcade machines are converted all the time. However, dedicated arcade machines that are covered by patents are a special case. And RoXoR's BoXoR can only go into a DDR machine. You can't even put it into a PIU machine, a Technomotion machine, or any generic cabinet. And that's why Konami cares. This is unlike fighting game cabinets where the cabinet is not specific to the game. And it is unfair competition to hijack your competitors products.
And I said earlier, Konami is actually being fairly nice here. Nobody should be thinking "Oh, Konami is suing? What assholes!" (I'm going to be saying this often, I'm sure.) |
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sherl0k
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ark_keeper
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Joined: 31 Aug 2002
Location: Louisville, KY |
| 78. Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Konami should just sell the rights to Roxor, since Konami's not using them anymore anyway. I do see the problems with trademark infringement and that could easily carry over to other versions, cabinet or not.
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sherl0k
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