Trouble in Groove-land

CNLohr · Trick Member Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Realistically, this suit is more like a last ditch effort on the part of KOJ.

Konami lost all patent rights to the 4-panel design (since the patent was held invalid), the only few things they could actually do is with copyright infringement.

I am not quite sure how this could have ANYTHING to do with trademark infringement (since it has to do with a mark that distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.) (see http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/trade_defin.htm )

I beleive this could be over one of two other things: 1) the modifications and "reverse-engineering" of the original konami cabinets... and 2) copyright infringement, in the area of something like graphics.

It would be even harder for konami to get anywhere with RO and the makers of PIU in this. I see this mostly as a scare tactic and something to only slow Roxor down.

I say good luck to KOJ, but unless they are suing on grounds other than what is said here... It's nothing real IMO.

kenpocoyote · Trick Member Joined: 24 Apr 2004 Location: Marlboro, MA

About effin' time! DDR Extreme being "Konami leftovers" or not, ITG is a pathetic substitute for DDR. Let's just hope this means that Konami is going to blow us all away with an arcade release of DDR Extreme 2.

Cutriss · Staff Member Joined: 24 Jan 2002

V4shTheStampede · Trick Member Joined: 10 Apr 2005

Hm. I wasn't planning on getting ITG at all. I'll stick to DDR, since it's orginal and not just a crappy copy. Roxor stole their game. I think it's reasonable.

Even though people may think that ITG is better than DDR, it's just an immitation. The only improvements I can think of are the fact that you have to use hands for some songs. I can't play most songs on heavy on DDR, so I don't think harder and longer songs on ITG will be good for me. Maybe for you people, but not me.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, RedOctane made ITG? (As well as Roxor, right?) And RedOctane sucks.

Maybe Konami was a bit of a jerk-off for pulling this lawsuit a few days before ITG shipped, but that doesn't change anything.

But all opinionated comments aside, DDR's interface is cleaner, the arrows look nicer (you can even have turtles on UM2), and the songs on DDR aren't some songs that no one's even heard of before. DDR was made in Japan. ITG in USA, if I'm not mistaken. I personally like the Japanese-style techno better than the American stuff.

My point is that if Roxor/RedOctane/Whatever didn't want to get sued, they shouldn't of made ITG such an obvious copy of DDR.

Edible Bondage Tape · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Kerri

CNLohr · Trick Member Joined: 02 Feb 2004

BrandonMills · Trick Member Joined: 24 Aug 2002 Location: Allston, MA

There is NOTHING illegal with releasing a clone of a game, people.

Wait a minute...the modification that Konami is upset about is for machines that are illegal in the US in the first place...

Does Konami have the right to sue someone over modifying hardware that is already illegal? Might Konami have just outed themselves out of the US market in the arcades if it comes down to 'Every DDR arcade machine now has to be legal.'?

ark_keeper · Trick Member Joined: 31 Aug 2002 Location: Louisville, KY

DDR JP machines aren't legal in the US anyway, so buying a machine and changing it to a legal US game makes it illegal? How can you sue a company for providing technology for a bunch of your games that are illegal? Shouldn't they be suing namco and other arcades for having their machines?

Edit: Weird timing...
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Moooooo

sherl0k · Maniac Member Joined: 27 Jan 2002 Location: the internet

CNLohr · Trick Member Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Edible Bondage Tape · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Kerri

sense every one did it in the 70s and didnt get sued (though it is actualy illegal)

the machines in america arnt illegal read up on fair traid and fair use laws

depending on the wording of the contract it *might* be aganst he contract and license 9even then ot actualy illegal) for konami to sell the machines to a company without a holding of some sort oin japan but past that their is no actual legal restriction on importation or exportation
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BrandonMills · Trick Member Joined: 24 Aug 2002 Location: Allston, MA

Catastrophe · Trick Member Joined: 04 Mar 2002 Location: Worcester, MA

First, Konami did not decide to do this just today. They had to have planned these lawsuits in advance. It's not like Konami is only waking up to ITG just now. Konami was doing RoXoR a favor by waiting. Not too long ago RoXoR was just installing their first BoXoR at 8otB. That was really the first time that patent infringement happened. However, Konami didn't immediately pounce at RoXoR because at the time it looked like RoXoR was just a couple guys who were making these games in their basement. So Konami would have nothing to benefit from suing them. It would be a waste of time and money for Konami to pursue each individual person who made their own Stepmania cabinet.

However, RoXoR has now modified enough DDR cabinets that they are starting to make an impact. This is why Konami choose now to sue - RoXoR is now large enough to be a reasonable target for a suit. Nobody should be angry. Konami isn't suing ITG so that they can continue to monopolize the dance game market. Konami has that monopoly in the bank, anyway. Konami is suing ITG because their patent on the DDR machine is very important to them and they need to protect it.

If I'm reading this correctly, it looks like the remedies that Konami wants aren't severe at all. If I'm right, Konami only wants damages and an injunction against making BoXoRs. That's practically a settlement if RoXoR loses. Sometimes in patent infringement cases the patent asks that all infringing devices be destroyed. Konami is being nice here because they don't want to piss off ITG fans, most of whom were DDR fans at some point. Well, some ITG fans are gonna be ticked, but none of the sensible ones will be. Did we not all see this coming from last year?

Arch0wl IV · Trick Member Joined: 07 May 2004

Edible Bondage Tape · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Kerri

BrandonMills · Trick Member Joined: 24 Aug 2002 Location: Allston, MA

ark_keeper · Trick Member Joined: 31 Aug 2002 Location: Louisville, KY

The machines are illegal here for use. That's why they say for use in japan only. The songs aren't licensed by Konami here, so the machine making money by having the songs on it here is illegal.
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Moooooo

Arch0wl IV · Trick Member Joined: 07 May 2004

Edible Bondage Tape · Trick Member Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Location: Kerri

IHYD.DukAmok · Trick Member Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Location: Corona, CA

arch: rofl kitty is so anticlimactic there.

anyway, i think everyone saw this coming at some point, but i think catastrophe is the most correct.

konami doesnt want to piss off their fans, but they still want damages paid.
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Sappy_!?! wrote:

just to answer, if someone who stands next to you watching you play PSMO but you get a D on it, versus somebody who understands perfect attacking and stuff, will think you suck. A player is considered good in my opinion when a player of a higher level comments about you or see's you triple A a song. Or if somebody looks up to you. Hope it clarifies.