My home built metal DDR pad (Part IV)

[grgisme]

The questions got answered so I'm going to comment on our list of "wish we'd known's" and add my own later.

1. Do not let the people at Lowe’s cut anything for you if you want it cut right. Only let them cut it enough to fit in your car.

AMEN! My pad is all screwed up because the rip of the plywood wasn't straight and we assumed it was when we cut it on the table saw. So it was our fault for not being thorough enough, they CAN'T CUT STRAIGHT on their machine thingy.

2. Lowe’s will not cut your wood the dimensions you tell them. I’m serious about this. It sucks to get home and realize you have a 33X32 rectangle, five 10 13/16 X 10 15/16 rectangles, and four rectangles of varying, arbitrary sizes.

Same here, it was off. We had them cut it to 3'x3', but it wasn't exact, heed this warning!


3. A table saw is highly recommended, not just a little recommended, particularly in light of (1) and (2) above. Jig saws and circular saws, even in skilled hands, cannot replicate the precision of a table saw, and this project depends on precise cuts.

I had a table saw, and it was a major help. If you have a metal cutting blade you can cut the metal, the wood cutting blade cuts the acrylic, and if you have a sanding/grinding wheel/blade you can do all of riptide's jigsaw work much faster. I also recommend one of those pull down saws. Forget what they're called, but you pull the blade down to cut say a two by four into pieces. You can also use them for angles. I used this to cut my wood triangles and the corners off the acrylic for Riptide's design.

4. Be very, very careful when cutting the Plexiglas. I had some breaks go badly. I’d recommend scoring both sides well and clamping straight edges on both sides of the Plexi to make sure you get a clean, straight break.

See I cut mine on the table saw with the wood cutting blade, and it came out awesome. (I cut both 1/4" and 1/8" just fine.) So I am foreign to this problem. As gecko just mentioned, the higher the teeth count on the blade, the cleaner cut you'll get.

5. If you’re going to buy a controller for the pc board, I recommend a Mad Catz Beat Pad ($20 at EBGames), which has big, clearly labeled solder points and is tougher and simpler than most game pads. I didn’t plan on buying one, but after frying two controllers that I had lying around, I had to.

I'll keep this in mind, I'll be doing one eventually I'm sure. Note about controllers, DON'T drill through those little dots to solder to, they'll pop off. At least in my experience. A smaller drill bit may have fixed this though. If you have a dance pad control board to use, USE IT, it's SOOO much easier.

6. An external control box is the way to go, at least on the first try. A project box, standoffs, and a barrier strip will run you $10 at Radio Shack, and I recommend it. An external box facilitates construction and helps when you have to diagnose a problem; it’s also a good place to mount switches.

Definitely good for troubleshooting. Because I have lights powered by a 9v battery inside my control box, I used 25Pin "D" connectors and made my own cable, as I had 10 wires -- 4 arrows -- 4 pushbuttons -- a power -- and ground. One awesome thing to know if you're going to try what I did, is that the 9Pin Serial Cables have 10 WIRES inside! So I bought this for my second pad and cut off the ends.

7. Cat5 cable works great, is really small, and one 15 foot cable will give you all the wire you need, as well as having a plug on the end that makes connecting and disconnecting a control box really easy.

One smart way to do this is to configure your pad around a certain kind of cable, or make your own cable. As I described above I made my own 3' cable, with a male 25 pin D connector on each end, and female connector on the control box and the pad. This way for transport all cables going to the pad are removeable, fits in a trunk much better, and easier to carry.

8. A Dremel may come in handy.

Yes very true. I didn't find it handy myself, but only because I had better more specific tools for everything. I tried using the metal cut-off wheels for part of it, but they broke too easily. Plenty of uses for a dremel though!

9. Maybe it’s obvious, but consider your tools when you’re budgeting for this project. It’s easy to say “around $120” when someone asks how much it costs to build these things, but don’t forget a soldering iron, utility knife, clamps, and all the other tools you might not have. I ended up spending closer to $180 because I lacked some of these things. BTW, a wire stripper (mine, anyway) doesn’t do too well on cat5 (it’s too small). Don’t buy one, just use a utility knife.

I had wire strippers that worked fine, even on the wires found inside the Playstation controller (most people won't have to strip those, but they're VERY small). But I agree, if you're comfortable with a utility knife, just use that. And no, the bit about having the right tools isn't obvious. Keep in mind, if your household has a good collection of saws and drills and such, be creative, you can make the job a lot easier and the end result look much nicer! Not to mention if you have a lot of scrap wood around... I live in Florida and after making Hurricane shutters, we had all the plywood I needed except for $15 worth for the very base. The entire rest of the woodwork for my pad was made out of scrap wood in the garage.

10. I had never danced on a hard pad. It’s loud.

LoL, I'd danced on one, and yes its pretty loud. Not to mention if you use certain adhesives (almost everything I tried) that crackle. Contact cement does NOT crackle. I suggest using this. But I'll let you know after my second pad is finished, I used it much more heavily in construction of the secone pad than the first.

11. A countersink is necessary IMO for a finished look.

IMO as well. Not sure what you're countersinking though. LoL. Pushbuttons you're going to have to countersink on the back whether you want to or not, I didn't countersink my screws on the top, but I can see where it could improve the feel if not the look. I didn't want to mess with countersinking through the corner brakets though. Mine looks fine to me.

12. Kinko’s sucks. At lest the one on Rose Ave. in Lexington, Kentucky does. I think (might be wrong) that what you want is an enlargement on a color copier, rather than a print from one of their computers. I got no help while trying to do this, and those per minute Macs start getting expensive.

I believe you can take Kinko's a disk and have them print stuff can't you? If not they now have a thing you can download and print directly from Word on your home computer, it sends it over the Internet and charges a credit card (and can even mail the printed pages to you if you desire). I also suggest Staples. That's probably where I'll be getting mine done. Either Staples or a local printing place. My arrows are going to rock (IMO) :-), I'll put them up when I'm done with them.

13. I used Gorilla Glue, and I’m not entirely satisfied. I’d go with the spray adhesives others have recommended if I had it to do over again.

Like I said, stay away from the spray adhesives for putting the sheet metal contacts on the acrylic (imo). Use contact cement instead. I tried spray adhesive on my first pad, and it didn't stick, and I ended up putting contact cement over it after trying the adhesive for like 3 days (the sheet metal strips kept falling off)

14. I’m going to put two kitchen drawer handles on the side of mine so that it can slide out from under the couch a little easier.

I'm going to be putting wheels on the bottom of mine (2 per pad), and perhaps a handle on top. This will allow a person to easily set it upright and push it along (I doubt it'll stay balanced on its own, but this way you don't have to CARRY it around, since they're heavy... even with my reduce weight design. I'll be taking it places, so this way I can roll it to my car, stick it in the trunk, and roll it to wherever else it needs to go.)


15. Use the triangle flaked sheet metal sheets. It looks good, is conductive, and not too bad to work with. It comes in large sheets and is cheap ($11 is enough for a sheet more than large enough for one pad -- arrows, border, and contacts).

16. To save some money, and precious poundage, you can use 1 piece of 1/4" acrylic and one piece of 1/8" acrylic... but then the thickness of your wood has to be different, so unless you follow a design similar to what I'll post, I guess this is mute.


I'll add more as I have time and put up info and stuff on how mine went and my design, etc.

Gotta run for now.

[ch]

if you wear down the finish on the flashing a little bit, you will find that is conducts electricity. but you could get screen to replace it instead.

and ho man are the pads loud. crakling, clacking, what do do about it...
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CStarFlare wrote:

I approve of the direction this thread is going

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090310025322668

[james9631]

SunnyDdr,

Doing thepadmaker's desgin and living in Lexington? We have a lot in common. Sorry about the problems you had, I went through most of the same ones. How is the aluminum screen working for you? I had to modify mine a little by placing metal tape over the screen where the screws came in contact with it. Some of the spots were getting torn and poking down so it would always be connecting to the screw. The metal tape helped a lot though.

My pad makes plenty of noise as well. How do your arrow panels do when being pressed? Do they make squeaking noises from the screws and plastic rubbing against each other?

[latindude88wpg]

i used the screws contacts design, and what i did was to screw them down, very very close to the wood, and do the same with the panels, so the movement is very minimal.
it works like a charm and it doesn't squeak as much as it did before.

[ch]

the arrow panels creak from being bent, and the wood rubbing together under the metal panels makes noise too. those are the most annoying noises.

also the arrows being pressed hard makes a loud clack, even though they are as close together as possible without touching. but i can live with it, it helps my timing.

but i dont know how to help the other noises, maybe not using plexi anymore, replacing with wood? talc between the wood pieces?
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CStarFlare wrote:

I approve of the direction this thread is going

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090310025322668

[stupidbarber]

I'm facing similar problems as discussed above, including trouble with Gorilla glue (don't use it!)
The noise is now my biggest concern - mainly of the arrow panel hitting the screw heads below. I'm thinking it would be much quieter if instead of using 1/2 inch wood, I could use 1/4 inch plywood (on top) glued to a 1/4 inch slab of hard rubber, like they use on industrial floors. Then I would glue the aluminum screen to the bottom. That should dampen the sound, I think. But I can't find a place to buy sheets of rubber - Home depot didn't have anything like that. Anybody have ideas on where to get hard rubber material?

[ch]

industrial supply stores like grainger or just google rubber flooring/rubber matting.
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CStarFlare wrote:

I approve of the direction this thread is going

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090310025322668

[SuRfReAk]

I think the main problem lies with the screws. My ddrhomepad hardly makes any noise at at all, only on one arrow (out of eight), where the lexan is bowed a bit. On my new and improved design, I'll be using 3/4 inch ply on the non-arrows, .093 crystalite (type of acrylic) and 1/4" plywood on the arrows....but it shouldn't make noise because of my contacts....

So far at $146.36 for my pad design... Here's an Excel of the costs...






Or not.

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[SunnyDdr]

[geckoinc99]

The biggest problem with noise comes from the main function of the arrow, the metal-on-metal contact. Without going to some type of switch design (as the arcades use), this is something that will have to be lived with. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a circuit. Eliminating the other noises will help to quiet it down some, but until someone comes up with a reliable, easy to do design for the contacts that eliminates the metal on metal we're going to have to live with that.

To confirm what others are saying, I used contact cement to glue not only the contacts to the acrylic, but to glue the flashing onto the squares as well. When using contact cement, there are a few things to keep in mind:

1. Keep the area clean! Major importance since this stuff will grab everything.
2. Do 2-3 coats on both pieces. Contact cement works by grabbing itself. So if you get both pieces coated VERY well, they will adhere much better.
3. Apply the contact cement and stick the pieces together in warmer weather. I think the can says above 60 degrees F but I don't remember for sure.
4. Coat the surface evenly. This can be difficult sometimes. Try to get the stuff to coat uniformely. If you get uneven coating, it'll show up on the covering, but not that bad. You really can't tell unless you look up close or shine light on it a certain way. It's good enough for me, so I'm not bothered by it.
5. When applying the pieces, try to roll the object on in order to avoide air bubbles. That is what will make popping sounds the worst. Also, once the pieces are on, press them firmly into place. For the coverings, I just stood on them several times to get them firmly on.
6. Give each piece at least 24 hours before you put any stress on them. This gives the glue time to cure.

Hope that helps someone out there.

-David
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[ch]

yea, the main reason you get crackling from the metal squares is because you get bubbles in the glue under the metal.

and about wood noises:
- make sure all your 11x11 pieces are as flat as possible. if they're bowed or otherwise not flat so the base can support them evenly, they will make a creaking noise when you step on them. so get the flattest sheet you can find for your squares.
- if you have a squeaking noise, which is wood rubbing against wood, first try to isolate the noise by stepping on diferent parts of the pad. once you find it, you can sand the offending area of rubbing, or put some talcum powder to ease the friction against the pieces.
- if you have a different kind of squeaking noise, like when you step on the arrows, your lucite is bowing when you step on it. you could try getting thicker sheets of plexiglass, or using wooden squares (slightly thinner than your metal squares) instead of plexi. you could also try using one piece of lucite on top to protect your graphic and a piece of wood on bottom to stiffen the lucite.
- if you are using thepadmaker's no-corner-brace design for holding down the arrows, you may want to drill larger holes through the lucite so it wont rub so much against the screws. that can make noise too.
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CStarFlare wrote:

I approve of the direction this thread is going

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090310025322668

[james9631]

I originally used the standard #10 1-1/4" sheet metal screws for the arrow panels. I drilled the holes larger to allow easy vertical motion of the arrow panels. I ended up drilling the holes too big because the screws kept comming out and allowed too much horizontal motion (not good at all). So I bought some #12 2-1/2" screws that had long shoulders. I used a bolt cutter to cut off most of the thread on the bottom and sized it to about 1-1/4. This way, the screws would not come up out of their holes and the arrows would move nicely becuase they would no longer be rubbing against a threaded screw. I still get some squeaking on a couple arrows however. A couple of the plastic panels cracked around the screws before i relpaced the screws.

[stupidbarber]

Well, I finished my first pad, based on Chris's design. I have to say, even though I took shop class in high school, mine came out nowhere near as good looking as the posted pics.
I finally gave up on trying to use window insulation as the springs, because the ones I could find were either too hard and non-springey, or else too weak to really push the arrows up fast enough. In the end, I changed to use ... springs! I found some at the local hardware, $0.59 each. Drilled shallow holes next to each corner screw, and just rested the springs in the divots before attaching the arrow on top. Seems to work pretty well, and I hope I won't have to replace them ever.

Still a lot of noise from stepping on the panels, but not from squeeking or screws, definitely from stomping down on the contacts underneath. I did manage to quiet it somewhat by making sure the arrows were screwed down just as close as they could go without actually closing the circuits.
In the final analysis, I found that the best way to make the pad less noisy is to just turn up the music! Good thing we have sound absorbing sheet rock.

Next subject, we defintely find it harder to get a good score on this pad compared to our Ignition soft pad. Is this common to other folks? Maybe it just takes some time to accomodate. Or I'm thinking maybe I should have just gone for a second Ignition pad, instead of all of this screwing around...

[ch]

i guess pads are just loud by design. basically as loud as the ones at the arcade i guess, but the music is louder over there. ill have to do some dBmeter testing... does anyone know if the microswitches in the arcade pads are rubberized on the outside?
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CStarFlare wrote:

I approve of the direction this thread is going

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090310025322668

[grgisme]

Okay, this is a question for those who have dove into the world of the xbox dance pads. I'm going to be making my control boxes for the Xbox soon, and I want them to be able to play on Xbox live (at least 1 or 2... since I do own xbox live). Will EVERY xbox dance pad register as a dance pad on Live? If not, anyone know what cheap kind of dance pad I can buy that will register? And if anyone plays the game on Live, does anyone care if it registers as a dance pad?

I'm going to be modding my ignition pads soon too. I'm going to use duck tape, etc. to get the contacts to make better cotact in order to get more life out of them (they've lasted a year, and only have slight problems now). My major mod is going to be this though: Since the controller card part has already broken open, I'm going to (without ruining the current contacts), solder on wires to each button contact on the controller, and secure a 25-Pin connector into the black casing of the controller part. This will allow me to use the current setup with the playstation still (I won't have disconnecting any of the current wiring), and also to hook up an Xbox control box and use my ignition pads on Xbox as well. (I can buy 2 cheap xbox pads for the price of 1 nice ignition one... saves money). BUT IF THE PART ABOUT REGISTERING AS A DANCE PAD ON XBOX LIVE IS A MYTH OR OVERLOOKED BY EVERYONE, I WANT TO KNOW! I'll save money by just using an xbox controller (which I can get for about 5 bucks... much cheaper than the 4 cheap dance pads I'd be buying $20<$60!).

~Grgisme

[grgisme]

About the pads being harder to get a good score on vs an ignition pad. I've noticed the same thing, and my pads are just the right sensitivity now. I think for me personally I'm just going to have to get used to it. The arrows aren't raised or lowered enough for me to know where I'm at on the pad yet (I have that problem at the arcade too though), I figure once I dance enough I'll be able to school on my new pads.

[ch]

if you use a dance pad control board, then anything you hook up to it will register as a dance pad.
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CStarFlare wrote:

I approve of the direction this thread is going

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090310025322668

[grgisme]

Yeah I understand that much. What I'm wanting to know is if every dance pad control board registers as a dance pad. Do the cheap and oldest ones for xbox register with xbox live? I've got no clue, that's why I'm asking.

[SuRfReAk]

I don't know specifically what kinds of pads register as pads, but if you look up a pad on amazon, some customer reviews will tell you if it registers or not. Usually the ones that don't [register] have someone complaining about it.
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[grgisme]

Thanks I'll try that. I figure I can always by the cheap xbox controllers and then upgrade later if I figure out its a big deal.