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MazriM TaiM
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Joined: 24 Jul 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada |
60.  Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | I especially have gripes with some of the Expert difficulty stepcharts, though I know they're for godly players who want more challenge, it's still servicing a tiny portion of the fanbase and probably alienating a much larger portion. |
You make it sound there are no such thing as "Easy" or "Medium" charts on ITG, and you think that everyone plays on Expert. Plenty of 1-3 foot songs to keep the newer players interested. Arcade owners praise the more americanized songlist too. The Hard charts are just what I look for, and I found them much better than some of the stuff you find on UM songpacks, and I've played ITG about as much as those songs in UM.
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LvngLrg
Trick Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Location: Fair Lawn, NJ |
| 61. Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| so...is there a release date yet? |
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Super Sapien
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Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Location: Home = Rising Sun, MD Play = Delaware |
| 62. Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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There's no reason why ITG on PS2 should make the arcades any less worthwhile. Because if ITG does well enough as a console release, there's no reason why they wouldn't continue releasing versions in the arcade like it was with DDR. It's not something to worry about. Want more arcade versions and more machines around? Support Roxor.
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 63. Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MazriM TaiM wrote: | | You make it sound there are no such thing as "Easy" or "Medium" charts on ITG, and you think that everyone plays on Expert. Plenty of 1-3 foot songs to keep the newer players interested. Arcade owners praise the more americanized songlist too. The Hard charts are just what I look for, and I found them much better than some of the stuff you find on UM songpacks, and I've played ITG about as much as those songs in UM. |
I know there are other difficulty levels, but even playing on Hard, the DDR Heavy equivalent, is somewhat deminished by the fact that it's NOT the top difficulty level. And, how many people who play ItG do play on Expert level? My impression was a lot, but am I sorely mistaken? If most only play up to Heavy, I think that should give Roxor something to think about when developing the next ItG mix. Yeah, maybe I think too much of it, but the existence of Expert just reeks of elitism to me, rubs me the wrong way. Were it not there, were there just a scant few super songs in the 10-13 range, it wouldn't bother me at all, really.
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yyr
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Joined: 07 Mar 2002
Location: White Plains, NY |
| 64. Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| El Mullet wrote: | | And just because DDR hasn't seen a Japanese arcade mix in over two years does not mean its "dead". By that logic, Midway apparently "gave up the ghost" on Mortal Kombat after MK4 when they took a break for a couple of years, later coming back with MK: Deadly Alliance and MK: Deception. The franchise is STILL ALIVE AND KICKING, PEOPLE. Its just on the home markets these days. |
MK now sucks. Check the reviews for Deception. It wasn't that great...
...oh, yeah, back on topic.
Personally, I believe DDR is a slowly sinking ship. There are no new arcade releases in sight, except for DS Fusion (which will be inferior to Extreme and probably ignored outside of Europe). Sure, there are still new players, but not as many as there were, and the number will continue to decrease with the passage of time. And while we can dispute the quality of the recent home versions (personally, I think the last round of PS2 games was pretty terrible), we can probably all agree that there's been very little originality across all of them--except possibly for Ultramix 2, easily the best version released last year. This is not football, people. If Konami serves the same dish year after year, people will eventually tire of it, and I think they're running out of time.
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | The steps...I think are on the order of UM1 song packs or worse. Yeah, that's just my opinion, but that's the way I see it. I especially have gripes with some of the Expert difficulty stepcharts, though I know they're for godly players who want more challenge, it's still servicing a tiny portion of the fanbase |
| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | I'm not so sure ItG will have the mass appeal of DDR or even PUI on the home market. PUI is still beating ItG on arcade distribution. Actually, as far as competition goes, I'm much more excited about trying out the upcoming US home version of PUI. |
First off, it's Pump It Up, not Pump Up It. 
Second: my girl and I played ITG last Friday. It was her first time, and I picked a bunch of songs neither of us have played before. I've played ITG on three occasions now, and I still haven't touched Expert. I played Hard, she played Medium. Afterwards, we both agreed that the steps we played felt unique and were quite fun to play. She actually told me after a song that the steps were really fun...and I can't remember if she EVER said that after a DDR song.
ITG is quite a beginner-friendly game. From the full-fledged Training song to the huge number of easy and mid-level stepcharts, there really is something for everyone.
You may be surprised to learn that PIU Exceed is much LESS beginner-friendly than ITG. I think even diehard Pump fans will agree with me on this one. The difficulty ratings are all over the place and can often not be trusted; you'll see plenty of instances in Crazy (and even a few in Hard) where you'll have to hit more than 2 things at a time, and there'll be no warning before you play the song; there's no way to see difficulty ratings from the song scroll--you actually have to "half-select" the song first; and the feature set is not what we're used to (for example, pick 1x or 2x--there's still no 1.5x--there are only three difficulty levels, not four--and if two people are playing, they MUST play the same difficulty).
Honestly, other than "it's fun," I can't really think of a single reason to recommend PIU over ITG to anyone. Unless, perhaps, the person really likes K-Pop or really dislikes techno and trance music.
| Quote: | | Yeah, maybe I think too much of it, but the existence of Expert just reeks of elitism to me, rubs me the wrong way. |
I understand what you're saying, but I can't help but think it's like saying "the existence of Beginner bothers me, because it looks like the game focuses on n00bs."
Expert is there because ITG caters to everybody, n00bs and elitists included. It's also there because Konami hasn't created anything for the USA harder than PSM Oni, and that's 2+ years old, and some players want something harder to play than PSM Oni. Do I? No. But I'm only one person. And even if only a small percentage of steppers want it, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be there--even if KCET is trying to prove otherwise in their newest home versions.
~yyr
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 65. Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Ugh, I should always take a bit more care not to make such embarassing typos like "PUI," more than once in fact  Anyway, yeah, PIU is probably a much harder game to get into for the harder difficulty, but Normal doesn't seem any worse than DDR on Light at least. I was trying PIU out when I was first getting into DDR with 3rd Mix. Basically, I got to play DDR much more at home and at arcades; PIU was only available in a movie theatre in my area, which meant I had to pay for a ticket to get into the lobby to even play it. Without access to it otherwise, I've never gotten to play it much. However, for what little I did play on Normal, it didn't seem that hard. I haven't tried Hard or Crazy yet. PIU seems more interesting to me right now than ItG simply because it's got more going for it to set it apart from DDR to me, mainly because of the different pad layout and the inclusion of plenty of K-pop (wish there were some home versions of DDR 3rd Mix Korean). ItG is basically just DDR with debatably more interesting music (I've not been particularly wowed by it yet, but maybe J-pop has corrupted me already), some hand use, and mines, which I have found to be more annoying than innovative so far. Didn't Konami ditch the "OUCH!" damage idea after 1st Mix CS?
Blah, rambling now. Anyway, I appreciate that you can see where I'm coming from with my distaste for Expert mode, but if ItG were really geared toward players of all levels, why no bare bones easy Beginner mode as well? Is that the "fifth" difficulty level mentioned in the press release? If so, I'd say that's a smart move on Roxor's part and would go a long way into changing my opinion that ItG is really only looking out for the elite players.
Oh, btw, just to save a little face on the "Pump Up It" goof Konami hasn't even given the US PSMO yet. Technically, no one should be playing DDR EXTREME in a US arcade (unless apparantly it's that dubious Namco version of DDR EX US), so Konami hasn't officially given us anything harder than loM.
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foyboy21
Roxor Staff
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Location: Seattle |
| 66. Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | why no bare bones easy Beginner mode as well? Is that the "fifth" difficulty level mentioned in the press release? If so, I'd say that's a smart move on Roxor's part and would go a long way into changing my opinion that ItG is really only looking out for the elite players.
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Indeed the 5th difficulity is Novice, which is avalible for ALL songs. We really want everyone to have as much fun as possible while playing ITG. We hope that the novice difficulity will enable new players to have steps close to thier level on many songs.
In other dance games some expert players have complained that they have been limited to only being able to play a few songs as few songs had steps at thier level (10+). We felt that newer players should not be limited to only a few songs either, and with the addition of novice mode beginners now have access to many songs as well.
Now not only do average joe players (difficulty 6 to 9) have access to most songs, but now so do novice and expert. After all, why should novice and expert players only have small fraction of songs to choose from? |
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Wolfman Jake
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Joined: 13 Sep 2002
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| 67. Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, that simple inclusion of a Novice mode for entry-level players makes the claim of ItG as a game for players of all skill levels seem a lot more believable now for me. I hope that feature will carry over to any future arcade editions.
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foyboy21
Roxor Staff
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Location: Seattle |
| 68. Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I hope that feature will carry over to any future arcade editions. |
Any future ITG games will have novice mode. |
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LouieT
Trick Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Location: Visalia, Central CA |
| 69. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| So if there is an edit mode, is it safe to assume then that the home version will work with USB thumbdrives via PS2 USB slots? |
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LET ME SHOW YOU THEM
Vivid Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Location: Mountain View/Sunnyvale CA |
| 70. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:48 am Post subject: |
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If you want an overall good chart, complete with just about everything ITG has to offer, play ROMeo & Juil8 Expert (yes i said expert). It is one of the easier 9s in the game, and it has hands, mines, and the steps are legitimately fun to play. Also, in DDR you will probably NEVER see anything like Disconnected Mobius Expert or Oasis Expert...
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| theficionado wrote: | | Seriously, they should make some sort of spray for you. |
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arnoct
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Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada |
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Arctic Wolves
Trick Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Canada |
| 72. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| I'm willing to bet that, at least here, EB Games will import it from the US. Canada has never legitimately got a DDR game (except UM2, I believe) because of licensing issues, but EB has always bought up stock from the US and sold it here; there's no reason why it should be any different with ItG. |
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El Mullet
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Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 73. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| yyr wrote: | MK now sucks. Check the reviews for Deception. It wasn't that great...
...oh, yeah, back on topic. |
Uh-oh! I've been OPINION'D! Now I have no leg to stand on with my argument! 
I'm sure people bought it despite reviews to the contrary. Including me, and I was happy with it. Doesn't change the fact that what I said was true.
MOVING ON...
| yyr wrote: | | Personally, I believe DDR is a slowly sinking ship. There are no new arcade releases in sight, except for DS Fusion (which will be inferior to Extreme and probably ignored outside of Europe). Sure, there are still new players, but not as many as there were, and the number will continue to decrease with the passage of time. And while we can dispute the quality of the recent home versions (personally, I think the last round of PS2 games was pretty terrible), we can probably all agree that there's been very little originality across all of them--except possibly for Ultramix 2, easily the best version released last year. This is not football, people. If Konami serves the same dish year after year, people will eventually tire of it, and I think they're running out of time. |
I might be able to agree with you and the "decline" of DDR players, were it not for the fact that the franchise sold a million units of the series last year alone. Even if that statistic means that 250,000 people bought four games on average, I find it hard to believe that the series is truly floundering at this point.
Although I will say that I understand your point about "Konami serving the same dish". But then again, quite a few of us on DDRFreak are avid importers, and we play quite a bit more versions of our quirky dancing games than most have. It's as if we are at Konami's buffet, and we keep going back for more plates. We choose the same foods, but different portions. And we've done this for so long that some of us got tired of the buffet, and wish to try a new place to eat. (God I hope this analogy made a lick of sense.)
All I'm saying is that the non-importer who really doesn't care about importing seems to be more inclined to continue on. In the US, we only had two games that directly resemble eachother (MAX and MAX2), while in Japan, it gets a bit hard to tell certain games apart.
Back on topic, I'm really glad that there's going to be tons of competition this year where there wasn't any before. Who will win the BATTLE OF THE ARROW STOMPING GAMES?!?!?!?
That's easy. Me. Because I get to play them all.
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ninjafetus
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Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Location: Albuquerque, NM/Lubbock, TX |
| 74. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfman Jake wrote: | | I know there are other difficulty levels, but even playing on Hard, the DDR Heavy equivalent, is somewhat deminished by the fact that it's NOT the top difficulty level. And, how many people who play ItG do play on Expert level? My impression was a lot, but am I sorely mistaken? If most only play up to Heavy, I think that should give Roxor something to think about when developing the next ItG mix. |
For clarification, I work at an arcade, plenty of people here are both good enough to play only on expert, and willing to play on hard. And that's including me, who's FEC'ed ("AAA"'ed) an 11 footer, so don't think that we just don't have players good enough to play expert.
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jihnsius
Trick Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2002
Location: FUCKING NEW YORK CITY SPEEDCORE!! |
| 75. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Finally! Now I don't have to go to hell to play this game! In your face, Satan!
Sarcasm, by the way, the game is a disgrace to Konami. |
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cj iwakura
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Location: coral springs, fl. |
| 76. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm sold on this for the ever-popular reason of not having an arcade version anywhere near here.
And I agree that ITG is far more user friendly than Exceed: the difficulty levels are accurate, it's based on a system that nearly every player on the planet is familiar with, and the beginner songs are actually beginner friendly.
For all its numerous advantages, Pump is infamous for scaring away beginners. Hopefully the PS2 incarnation can remedy this, but it's difficult to say. I'm more curious to see if RO's going to time ITG's release with Mastiff's release of ExSE..
This could also be good news for DDR fans too, though: the sudden appearance of so much worthy competition might spurn Konami back into action.
Hopefully it won't be too late for them to counter being so thoroughly outdone.. both games alike are well beyond the limitations of Extreme.
Oh, and briefly being OT:
| Quote: | | Actually, as far as competition goes, I'm much more excited about trying out the upcoming US home version of PUI. Is it going to have any delicious Korean pop or will it be largely Americanized? |
It's going to have nearly every song in the arcade Exceed, and then some, so yes. The only Americanization taking place is the addition of six new songs and a few new(awesome-looking) modes. |
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Cutriss
Staff Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
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| 77. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| foyboy21 wrote: | | Quote: | | I hope that feature will carry over to any future arcade editions. |
Any future ITG games will have novice mode. |
Will this be for Singles only or will Doubles have Novice steps?
I can't say that I blame Konami for omitting Beginner on Doubles, since you really kinda have to have at least Light-level skill to take on Doubles, but I'm just wondering.
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J. S. Mill
Maniac Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
| 78. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Chris: 14 footers please. Seriously. PLEASE GIVE US FOURTEEN FOOTERS WE ARE LIKE CRAZED DRUG ADDICTS WE MUST HAVE HARDER STEPS.
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rampage
Administrator
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Redmond, WA |
| 79. Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Pakwan Kenobi wrote: | Then consider the fact that PIU and now ITG are coming out for the PS2. If Konami was going to do something to block the distribution of ITG and other dance games via a lawsuit, Konami doesn't have much time to act.
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Konami and Andamiro have a legally binding treaty where Andamiro pays Konami a royalty for all PIU sales. It also prevents Konami from making DDR games in the US (a moot point now since they no longer have an arcade division). |
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