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Tomo_kun
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Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Location: SE-WI. |
40.  Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Because I cant see vivid arrows correctly due to my color defficiency (Not blind, just cant see some colors right  ) its looked down apon? I like the way the color looks of solo. If i play on a SOLO machine, I'll be looked down apon because it uses (Gasp!) solo arrows?!
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Mart
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Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Location: Montreal, Quebec |
| 41. Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel wrote: | | Instead of thinking of those who look down upon you as ignorant... |
Okay, let's set the record straight... Two things here:
1- I'd appreciate if you'd give me a logical explaination as to how you came to the conclusion that I automatically labeled those who "look upon me" as ignorant. I'd really like to know what led you to that erroneous assumption, because I honestly don't see where I could have pointed out that "competitive" players are ignorant. While I do admit that I did put an emphasis on the fact that some very competitive players look down upon those who play their beloved game for fun, I never implied that they were being ignorant. Whenever I'll feel like pointing ignorance out of something as futile as gaming preferences, I'll do it myself, and clearly, thank you very much. Won't need anyone's interpretations over that...
2- All I mentionned is that some people just play for fun, and they assume it, just like I do. Whenever I'll feel like challenging myself, then I'll do what I have to do... but please... can't we just all play and let everyone play the way they want, for their own motives? I mean, this whole "I won't respect him because he uses this or that mod" thing is ridiculous, in my opinion. Everyone deserves respect, not just the "elite"...
And on a personal note... nobody's forced to agree here... but if I'd be looking out for recognition, I'd be doing something that has much wider mainstream coverage than DDR.
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Delphy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV |
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Daniel
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Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Location: Sonoma, CA |
| 43. Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Uncle (TWICE!) wrote: | Daniel: Solo is entirely about preference. You either want to see really bright arrows or you don't. Most people who don't play with solo simply don't like the bright arrows. One can see that playing with vivid arrows is easier for them. OMG, they are making the game easier...that's not fair...go play PIU.
Oh, would you mind posting some of your accomplishments since you're a competitor? That might be the only thing that could possibly justify some of your inane arguments. |
Most people would agree that solo arrows are easier than the default. It's not a trivial matter of preference at all. It would be naive to organize a tournament where there is no official rule that decides how mods should be used. Also it's perfectly fair to make the game easier, however it's still reflective on you. And yes I do play PIU.
If you want me to post my accomplishments, fine. But it isn't really about me in the first place. Also I don't want to now, because I am playing the home versions of DDR. Eventually I will get a new computer set up and be able to play Stepmania.
Mart: Perhaps ignorant wasn't the word, however you did wright at the end of your post how the solo arrows things is ridiculous and how everbody should get respect. That seams rather ignorant to me. You just don't realize how respect must be earned by conquering difficult challenges through competiton. You must build character before you can stand out. The reason why I said that you think of members of the elite as ignorant is because you don't seam to realize that they look down upon those who use speed mods and/or solo arrows because they took the time to master something more difficult. |
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Mart
Trick Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Location: Montreal, Quebec |
| 44. Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel wrote: | | Mart: Perhaps ignorant wasn't the word, however you did wright at the end of your post how the solo arrows things is ridiculous and how everbody should get respect. That seams rather ignorant to me. You just don't realize how respect must be earned by conquering difficult challenges through competiton. You must build character before you can stand out. The reason why I said that you think of members of the elite as ignorant is because you don't seam to realize that they look down upon those who use speed mods and/or solo arrows because they took the time to master something more difficult. |
Okay, so let me get this straight... you're telling me that you will not respect someone as a person because of their playing preferences? And you're calling me ignorant for having an opinion different than yours about respect, something every damn human being is entitled to? All of that over gaming preferences?
Whoa... I'll think I'll just stop arguing on the matter, for this seems to be heading towards flamesland, and I want none of it. However, all I can say is that I severely question your judgement on this issue if it is solely based upon what someone does versus what you do. That's my opinion, I stick to it, and contrarily to what some people think, people disagreeing with me doesn't make that opinion of mine less valid.
And even though I have absolutely no control over this, I still wish this thing gets locked soon...
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YoureMyHiro
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Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Location: San Jose, Ca |
| 45. Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| I am colorblind, so it doesnt matter. Its all about the rhythm. |
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The Platinum Jedi
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Joined: 20 Nov 2003
Location: The Bay Area (510) |
| 46. Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| YoureMyHiro wrote: | | I am colorblind, so it doesnt matter. Its all about the rhythm. |
Are you serious? I did not know that about you.
Anyway, some of the people I play DDR with at the arcade sometimes look down on the modifier. When I pick it and the person to whom I'm playing with, would sometimes tell me to turn off SOLO.  I should have straight up told him, use the FLAT mod!, Biatch. 
I preffer to use the SOLO mod whenever I play. I personally think the arrows look much nicer than the default colors. At most tournys, they don't allow it. I could live w/o it.
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YoureMyHiro
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Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Location: San Jose, Ca |
| 47. Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject: Breakdown |
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Haha I thought most people knew for some reason, Im so used to it  I generally use solo when I need to decipher beat breakdowns in patterns of 3 sometimes because I notice a difference in tone depth. From light to dark if you will. Which in turn lets me know its "1 - 2 - 3" instead of "123." Hmm, maybe that was a little confusing? Heh. |
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stardf29
Trick Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Location: Jet World! |
| 48. Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I pretty much depend on Solo when sightreading songs I know are chaotic in nature. Eventually, though, I take off Solo when I'm used to the song's rhythms. I like beating a song "pure." It makes me feel good to know that I can beat So Deep on Heavy without having to depend on arrow color to know the rhythm of the arrows. Still, I put on Solo when trying a new, chaotic song so that I can learn the rhythms in the first place.
Still, I wouldn't look down on a person for using Solo. It's their choice.
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Daniel
Trick Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Location: Sonoma, CA |
| 49. Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Mart wrote: | All of that over gaming preferences
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That's the way any other competitive sport works. You can't get much respect by taking the easy way. It's your choice though. Not everybody can take the hard way though. I understand that not all of us have the time and/or patience and discipline to conquer DDR's greater challenges. My point and answer to the topic question at hand is that using solo arrows and/or speed mods is taking the easy way out, theresfore using them is looked down upon. |
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DJTyrant
Maniac Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Location: Ventura, CA |
| 50. Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel wrote: |
Eventually I will get a new computer set up and be able to play Stepmania.
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Hmmmm...thought we were talking about arcade DDR here.
| Daniel wrote: |
You just don't realize how respect must be earned by conquering difficult challenges through competiton. |
Um, yeah Oni's right. I see lots of people who use speed mods/solo who pass these all the time. JSB is a speed mod whore and he's great at oni's. So do you look down upon JSB, and other people who are REALLY GOOD at the game and use speed mods and/or solo?
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Slowpoke
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Joined: 28 Oct 2003
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| 51. Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel wrote: | | That's the way any other competitive sport works. |
I didn't realize we'd established that DDR was a "competitive sport"
| Daniel wrote: | | You can't get much respect by taking the easy way. It's your choice though. Not everybody can take the hard way though. I understand that not all of us have the time and/or patience and discipline to conquer DDR's greater challenges. |
Speaking of "respect", I'd certainly respect you a lot more if you could make your point without sounding so damn condescending. |
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KoKoa
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Location: Lexington Park, MD |
| 52. Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject: Solo All The Way.... Sometimes! |
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WOW! I see that this is a touchy subject. Hey... why am I surprised?! Me and my brother get teased constantly by the much more pro DDR competitors when we play on Solo. When I first started out, I didn't play on Solo. I can't remember who or what persuaded me to use Solo but I have used Solo ever since. At first, I felt ashamed, especially when the guys that are much better than myself used to complain. But, then, I realized that it was my preference and not theirs and... it wasn't like we were in a tournament, anyway! So, I have learned to let all that maoning and groaning and complaining about my mods go in one ear and out the other. There are some songs whose backgrounds just are a big no-no when selecting Solo (and I have learned this the HARD way!) but, other than that, I use Solo every chance I get.
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Mart
Trick Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Location: Montreal, Quebec |
| 53. Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Slowpoke wrote: | | Speaking of "respect", I'd certainly respect you a lot more if you could make your point without sounding so damn condescending. |
You, Slowpoke, are now officially my new role-model! I don't think I could have put it better than you did!
Now onto topic... to all those who look down upon people for futile things:
There's that thing called "live and let live". I mean it's like a black belt martial arts sensei would look down upon someone throughout his progress and not respect him just because he's not a black belt, and because what he currently learns is not as difficult as what the black belt can do. Or it would be like you looked down upon someone who walks with a cane, and don't respect him because you can walk just fine...
And if you're gonna tell me that my analogy is wrong, provide explainations with that claim, please. Oh wait, we were talking about competition here? Who said I was even competing with somebody? And no, me playing DDR doesn't mean I play to compete with anyone, nor does it automatically makes me a "competitor". It's like saying that playing street hockey with your friends already makes you an NHL prospect. Or it's like Wayne Gretzky would say that he shouldn't give you a shread of respect just because you play with a tennis ball and not a hard rubber puck, or because you're not playing on skates... or even because you're not playing within official NHL rules. But as we all know, Gretzky wouldn't do that. He would actually respect those kids playing street hockey because they practice the sport that became a passion for him. And that's what we call "honor".
Look, you think the way some people play is easier? Why would you care if you think you can beat those guys? What's up with the lack of respect, the arrogance, the condescending attitude and the elitistic values? Why can't we just live and let live?
That was my point from the start...
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Daniel
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Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Location: Sonoma, CA |
| 54. Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| sux0r6.DJTyrant wrote: |
Hmmmm...thought we were talking about arcade DDR here. |
Yes, but my Stepmania set ups are made to be just like the arcade. What I play on Stepmania is as every bit as difficult as it is at the arcade. I owe a lot of my skills to the arcade, and it is important to me that I play by the same rules as all arcade players.
| sux0r6.DJTyrant wrote: | | Um, yeah Oni's right. I see lots of people who use speed mods/solo who pass these all the time. JSB is a speed mod whore and he's great at oni's. So do you look down upon JSB, and other people who are REALLY GOOD at the game and use speed mods and/or solo? |
That is there choice. However when somebody like JSB uses speed mods and solo arrows, he knows what he is getting into. He knows that he may not be able to use them in a tournament where mods are awarded in some way, or if the tournament doesn't allow them at all. He knows that oni mode will never allow modifiers of any type. As long as he still can play better than I can, I will look up to him and strive to do better.
| Slowpoke wrote: | That's the way any other competitive sport works.
I didn't realize we'd established that DDR was a "competitive sport" |
DDR is designed to be competitive. That doesn't mean you have to be competitive, but the core of the Bemani game concept is completely based on competition. I simply cannot put enough emphasis on the term "competitive sport"
| Slowpoke wrote: |
Speaking of "respect", I'd certainly respect you a lot more if you could make your point without sounding so damn condescending. |
Well I could always just make occasional rude comments about your use of speed mods and/or solo arrows. If you take the easy way out and you don't seam to realize it, people usually not tell you what I am telling you now. Instead they will just act like jerks. Sure I'll work on how I sound, but do understand that many other people may not be as nice.
KoKoa: So you get teased a lot, and your decision is to just label them as jerks, and just play how you want to. So interesting how you made your post as a story, but there is no mention as to how good you are at the end. People tease you not because they are better than you, but because they know you have little idea of what you are doing. Sure it's "your game", but just because we have freedom of speech in the U.S.A. doesn't mean that everybody will use it wisely.
| Paul McCartney wrote: | | Actually it was live and let die. |
Mart: I like your martial arts example. Martial arts experts do tend to look down upon martial artists who use other styles. They don't look down upon non black belts, a person who is striving for a black belt just hasn't reached that level yet. The only time martial artists basically dis each other is when a master of a difficult style looks down upon somebody who mastered an easier style. However experts tend to recognize that a master of an easier style has found his/her place, based on the kind of a person he or she is, but they still recognize that they lack something that keeps them away from mastering a more difficult style.
Yes, if you play DDR you are automatically a competitor. Even if you may consider yourself just 1 of the crowd, competitive players strive to get higher scores than individuals that compose that crowd. And actually playing street hockey does make you an NHL prospect. Even if you decide never to play again tomorrow, if you play street hockey the game will rate you as a person. If you decide to try to get drafted in the NHL, that is a statement of character. If you choose to take on an entirely different challenge without going anywhere near the NHL, that is still a statemeant of your character. What's really important is that when you find a new challenge, you know what you are getting into. If you use speed mods and/or solo arrows do recognize that you are taking on an easier challenge every individual time you use them. As long as you factor this into your decision of how you play, you deserve to make that choice. |
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Mart
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Joined: 28 Dec 2003
Location: Montreal, Quebec |
| 55. Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Look, I know that Solo may or may not make it easier on you, depending on whether or not you have vision troubles. That, I can grant to ya. But you see, I'm not the kind of guy who's gonna do something in hopes to be the best. Why? Because tomorrow could be the day when someone else could throw you off the cliff. Would that discourage me? I honestly don't think so. Would I see a point to compete to be the best? Hell no! I won't get anything I don't already have out of it.
Even thou you may consider me as "competition" only because I play, I don't see myself this way. So feel free to "compete" with me and look down upon me as much as you want for what I pick, for I see no importance as to who beats who, nor in which condition it happens. Granted, solo makes it easier for people who may have a hard time following the different beats of a song. But unless your opponent is really serious about his DDR skills, at least give them a shread of respect, and let them choose whatever they want. You don't like solo? Either choose flat (which shouldn't be much of a handicap for any elite player), or play with someone else.
And when I talked about respect, I didn't mean it as "to respect one's skills". I meant it as "to respect the person as, well, a person". Respect on skills alone must be earned... that I totally agree. But as far as respecting someone as a person, I still think everyone deserves that. If that's the part that was misunderstood in our argument, then I'm sorry about it. If not, then I feel sorry that you base your respect for other people solely on how they play DDR, or perform in other disciplines.
If competing while playing DDR shows a trait of my character... well I'd say that it would show that I'm more of a cooperative than a competitive guy. Doesn't mean I'm taking crap from anyone, though... There's enough competition on more serious aspects of life already, I don't feel like adding more pressure in it from something I consider as a hobby. But that's just me...
And as for the rest, I guess it's just a matter of perception... which is something that can't be objectively seen as either absolutely true or false. So I guess it's best to leave those at rest...
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Slowpoke
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Joined: 28 Oct 2003
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| 56. Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel wrote: | | If you take the easy way out and you don't seam to realize it, people usually not tell you what I am telling you now. Instead they will just act like jerks. Sure I'll work on how I sound, but do understand that many other people may not be as nice. |
I'm not concerned, since I've yet to encounter anyone who's acted especially interested or threatened by how I play.
And those looking for "the easy way out" wouldn't be playing in the first place.
| Daniel wrote: |
DDR is designed to be competitive. That doesn't mean you have to be competitive, but the core of the Bemani game concept is completely based on competition. I simply cannot put enough emphasis on the term "competitive sport" . |
Yes, your overuse of the word "competitive" makes that apparent. It doesn't make it right though. For chrissakes, it's just a videogame. There's nothing inherent in it that should make it anymore competitive than any other videogame. If I'm playing Tekken, should I expect a crowd of people peering over my shoulder, complaining that I'm using "cheap moves"? If I'm playing Time Crisis, am I going to have gawkers telling me that my gun is 6 inches closer to the screen than it's supposed to be? DDR shouldn't be any different. Unless we're talking about a tournament, which is obviously competitive, there's absolutely NO reason to care AT ALL, about what someone else is doing on the machine. Unless the person is inviting feedback, just play your credits and mind your business, just as they are doing. If you see their name on the signup sheet at the next tournament, THEN you can do all the trash-talking you want. |
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rampage
Administrator
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Redmond, WA |
| 57. Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| This has turned into a totally useless circular argument. Anyway, this belongs in the Gamplay forum. |
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