Getting AA's with 1.5 mod, fair?

[Sammarco7]

Wow everyone, i'm not doggy, and i'm not saying it's cheating. But 1.0 is the way the game is meant to be played, That's why they don't start it at 1.5 speed. As to wether it's easier, you have to be pretty ignorant to believe that 1.5 isn't easier that 1.0 in at least 90% of the time. People all shouldn't have to use a speed mod to make it easier if they want to play it the way it is meant to be played. Having a AA on 1.0 is usally more impressive than a 1.5, why, because it's harder. Just like having it on dark, sure it's the same step pattern on dark, that doesn't mean it's the same difficulty as 1.0 or 1.5. Again, i'm not saying 1.5 is bad, so maybe a lot of people think it's more fun, go for it, i'm just saying it obviously doesn't compare to 1.0, that would just be unfair, it's a seperate category. For the last time, my point isn't that it's less fun, or you're "cheating", my point is, it is a different way to play, not the way it was meant to play, changes the gameplay makes it easier, and therefore cannot be compared to side by side with a AA on 1.0, without at least noteing that 1.5 modifier was used. Not a big deal, just saying, it's different.

[invincible1]

[Adamn]

[{SFSA} RAHK]

1.5x isnt cheating but it does make the song easier.

Speed mods change the level of difficulty of a song and during competition varying speed modification should not be allowed.

1x for life.
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More Doubles

[[Do V] muffin]

While playing a slow song on x1, or playing a fast song on S4R, or playing on boost or hidden or dark or whatever, can be fun at times, and can certainly increase the level of difficulty of the song, if you're going to "PERFECT ATTACK" a song, you should do whatever you need to do in order to maximize the number of Perfects that you get. Which means you should pick whatever speed mod you think will allow you to get the maximum number of Perfects. If my goal was to get as many Perfects as possible on My Summer Love, it would be foolish of me to pick x1, because I know very well that my best speed for that song is x3. And if your best speed for that song is x1, then you should pick x1, and if someone else's best speed is x5, they should pick x5.

After all, speed mods are part of the game, and even though x1 is the default speed, Konami does not consider AA's obtained through the use of speed mods to be illegitimate. If they did, then:
- The screen wouldn't say "AA" at the end of the song;
- They wouldn't give you an Extra Stage for a AA on Heavy on final stage obtained with speed mods;
- They wouldn't let you register Internet Ranking Nonstop scores done with speed mods.

Also, the claim that playing on x1 is automatically better than playing with speed mods makes no sense to me. Suppose you AAA My Summer Love on x1. Does that make you better than someone who AAA's it on x5? And the claim that x1 is better because it is default makes no sense either. After all, the default difficulty on Extreme is Beginner. Does that make other difficulties inferior? Heck, the default SONG is Graduation. Does that mean that it's better than the other songs? Also, the claim that x1 is "the way the game is meant to be played" because mixes before MAX have no speed mods makes no sense. If it did, then we'd all have to stop playing 5th mix and later mixes: after all, 30fps is the was the game is meant to be played, since mixes before 5th all have 30fps.

I have nothing against x1-only players. Playing x1 certainly has its advantages (like allowing you to do well on Oni courses). What I don't like is when people think that playing on x1 automatically makes them better than a speed mod user.

invincible: As I've pointed out to you in a previous thread, your claim about tournaments not allowing speed mods depends a lot on geographic location. Most tournaments in NYC and in New England don't allow speed mods, but most of the ones in California do, and all tournaments in Japan do allow them.

I personally strongly oppose the use of the x1-only rule in tournaments, and strongly support the idea that in a PA tournament, each player should be allowed to pick the mods that will allow him/her to perform the best (assuming they don't change the steps of the song or bother the opponent).
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[stoyq]

Fair!
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DDRecall/YouTube/Groovestats

[LET ME SHOW YOU THEM]

1x is a crutch

It's been around since DDR was invented and mods have only been out since Max
Honestly, if it bothers you SO much that your friends have more AAs then you because they play on 1.5 and you don't, then stop whining and either a) get better then them, or b) use speed mods yourself. THe person that is playing gets to pick what mods they want to use..frankly, i think 1.5 is no help also (because it's too slow for me for everything under 300 bpm...but that's just my personal preference), so play however you want and don't whine about how other people play.
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theficionado wrote:

Seriously, they should make some sort of spray for you.

[Bonnietta]

If speed mods were unfair, I doubt Konami would have made it an option in the first place.

[Avatar Z]

Speed mods are not an issue of challenge; they are an issue of gameplay fundamentals.

If a game is challenging due to the situation presented to the player, it has good gameplay. If a game is difficult simply because the player can't interact well with the game due to faults like bad 3D camera systems or, in this case, indecipherable step charts, it has bad gameplay. A game's challenge should stem from the game's situation, not from faulty mechanics, unclear objectives, or bad visuals.

The speed mods (and other visual mods, such as Solo, Flat, etc...) serve to make the game more accessible, playable, and ultimately enjoyable. Therefore, it is my opinion that there's nothing wrong with them.

As for those who say that this game was "meant to be played in x1", I say that the game was meant to be played in any way that yields the most enjoyment to the player. Go ahead and play on x1, but please don't point fingers at others for using mods which you deem "unfair". It would be much more unfair if others couldn't enjoy themselves due to a few elitists who say they shouldn't be allowed to do so.

Just forget about them, and have fun.

And that's my $0.02,
~Avatar Z
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Thank you, Avatar Z. But our princess is in another castle.
"What if everything you see is more than what you see?..." -Shigeru Miyamoto

[invincible1]

sigh...now i see why the mods just lock these kinds of topics at the beggining. Almost everyone here is missing the point of this guys thread. He is saying as he stated about 4 times that 1x is just more difficult then 1.5x and thats the truth. Everyone can argue if its fair or not. I'll say its not everyone else will say it is but all that doesnt matter because its just opinions. He's just saying that its more difficult thats all.

Muffin:I dont remember ever saying anything about tournaments and speed mods on this site before. However I dont think I've been to a tournament that allowed speed mods so I guess im biased. I just think it should be two seperate divisions if youre gonna allow speed mods. One for mods and one for no mods. I'd like to see an s4r tourny around here I think thatd be fun as hell to watch even though I suck at it

[AcidBurnISU]

He stated its more difficult, most people are saying it is not more difficult. Perhaps on things like bag, sure its more difficult, but oh well.

[Pizazz]

So what is the issue of this thread? Everyone keeps saying that the majority of posters are missing the point. So enlighten us of what is the point? I know that I would have probably never gotten to Heavy if it were not for speed modifiers and i think they are fair game (oops! off topic, I guess...)
Well, if the "point" of this is if speed mods make it easier and we aren't allowed to digress at all from this statement, then I say yes. I'll leave it at that so I don't miss anymore points.
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PZAZ
"Pzaz is FINALLY on the high scores! Woo!!"-me

[[Do V] muffin]

[justoneuncle]

In honor of Rahk posting here, I must say:
Legend Of Max (1x)=10 footer
Legend Of Max (3x)=23 footer :)

Invisible--Note that I didn't flame you, I merely disagreed with your opinion in a slightly vulgar way. Shouldn't really be that big of a deal. These threads pop up once a week and I just like to get my vulgar 2 cents in prior to them being locked.

I like the way Adamn puts it, in that speed mods change your comfort level with reading the arrows. There are a lot of people who have been perfect attacking since the 4th mix days and they are comfortable with 1x, since it was all they had. I have been attempting to perfect attacking since 7th mix, therefore I had the option to change my scroll rate. Of all the AAs I have earned, I don't feel that there isn't a single one that I could not have done modless if I had chose to play modless for my entire DDR career.

Adamn brings up Justify My Love. If he played it now, he would probably easily SDG it on 1x. If I played it on 1x, I would need a miracle to AA it on 1x. I'm not used to a song scrolling at a 140 bpm song scrolling at 1x. Therefore, he would easily clobber me in the song if we both played it on 1x because he is more used to those conditions (and because his PA is 8 zillion times better than mine).

As long as holding down the green button on the song select screen brings you to the options screen on every Extreme machine in the country, then they are fair game in my eyes. I don't feel I should respect someone less if they AAA Look To The Sky True Color Mix on 1.5x or 2x as opposed to 1x. It really isn't that big of a deal, even in the DDR world. Until Konami releases an official Dance Dance Revolution rule book that says speed mods are cheating, then they should be fair game.

One more thing, regarding separating speed players and 1x players. How does one determine who is better between the two? When both enter a PA tournament, they are both trying to get as many perfects as possible. They are doing the exact same thing. I personally feel that both should be allowed to play under their most comfortable conditions as long as they aren't distracting their opponent.
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[hi i'm Lain]

I do whatever it takes to get my scores higher. If it means speeding up the arrows, so be it.
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NO DOUBT GET LOUD I BE KICKING YOUR NEIGHBOR

[djmon]

come on people post this on DDR Gameplay

[AcidBurnISU]

btw: you started this thread with the title "blah blah blah is it fair."

we answered, yes, its fair, and gave reasons, then other people tried to say thats not hte question. If its not the question, dont name your thread that.

[Mark of the DMast]

[Sammarco7]

Ok, again, I'm not saying if you play on 1.5 it's unfair! I'm just saying that, for instance, if you're in a group of friends competing for getting AA's then having different speed modifiers makes the gameplay different and you can no longer judge their scores together. Someone said that getting a AAA on my summer love on 1x isn't better than 3x, how is it not. I guarantee it's harder to get AAA on 1x, and i guarantee the average person gets a lower score on it on 1x as opposed to 3x, if they played them equal times. Point= 1.5x is different, 1.5x is easier for most songs, 1.5x cannot be compared to 1.0x. Just like ghost can't be compared to 1.0x, because it's much harder to do, no denying that. Let me just say again, i'm not saying it's unfair, i'm not saying 1x is better or 1x players are somehow superior to mod players, i'm just saying you can't compare them, 1x is harder most of the time(with the obvious exception of songs that are already really fast like max).

[Neojin888]

I try not to use too many mods. I tend to use 1.5 a lot more than I should, I think it helps me learn songs better. Most of the people at the arcade I go to use speed mods and a lot of them play oni and don't seem to have problems. It definitely helps my PA and I agree with the people that say you should be able to choose mods that will let you do your best. that's all i got.