Solid State Metal Pad - Any interest?

[intrest86]

Hello everyone,

This is about a possible new design for Hard HomePads. I'm not putting this in the sticky thread because it seems to be mostly for getting help with the current designs and not for coming up with completely new ones. If any of the Moderators would like it in there, just give me a heads up and I'll repost it there so that you can delete this thread

Basically, all the designs strive for durability & an arcade experience. That requires moving parts, namely the arrow panels and their switch mechanism. Moving parts always raise maintenance requirements, since things wear out.

The design I am looking at is solid state. The switches use something called charge transfer to sense contact with the arrow panel, which does not move. The entire arrow panel would be sensitive, and it would be possible to tune the sensitivity to get it very accurate. Of course, the panels being solid does not give an arcade experience. It would be more like a very durable and reliable soft pad.

A lot of options are availabe with this method. The pad could look like a standard DDR metal pad, or it could even be a solid sheet of lexan. Adding buttons does not increase the cost extensively, so 4-8 buttons are more than feasable.

Anyone find the concept interesting? I plan to try making one for myself, and may either release a design or put them up for sale. The main reason I wouldn't put up a design is because the construction and the theory behind it would be a little complicated, and it would probably come down to me using my experience building them to make them work. But if I'm succesful and someone a little better with making easy instructions wanted to write some for me that would make sense to people, I would love the help

But that is getting ahead of myself, should I even pursue this kind of pad?

[TheManOfTheSea]

I can't say I know a whole lot about the technicalities of that kind of stuff, but the pad idea seems sound. You might want to make the arrows lowered (like the arcade) so you can "feel" where you are on the pad - basically, so it's not just stepping on a flush surface.

I'm interested. If this thing takes off like Cobalt Flux, lemme know and, depending on where you live, I'll do what I can to help out. Could be a good thing for the DDR community ^^
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Are you enjoy?

[intrest86]

I just noticed I didn't include my location

If I ever get this to work, I would enjoy your help. Just depends how much you want to drive to Portland, OR :-p

After more research, it looks as if the total cost for the solid state sensors for a 4 button pad would come to under $10. I am hoping that means I will be able to not only make it more durable but also a cheaper alternative.

Oh yeah, and to make sure no one thinks I am another... can't remember his name... Beat something? I have no intention of making a gigantic operation out of this, I'm not asking for any money, and I don't want people to reserve anything. I'd just like to know if anyone would like (as in enjoy, not reserve or hope to obtain!) this kind of pad

[calim]

I'd definitely like something like that.

[dammit jill]

that's interesting theory you came up with. i really think you should test it out and build it first and see how responsive it is at first and if it works. if it's inexspensive, you are certain to find some buyers since all of us are low in moola.

[intrest86]

How important are corner brackets for the arrow panels to the game playing experience? Since the arrows are fixed, they are no longer neccessary in the standard sense,and removing them brings the cost down around $30.

So, do you need corner brackets? Or is the arrown panel being perfectly square acceptable?

[Devil Warrior]

If by solid state you mean sheet metal with wire touches sheet metal with other wire and completes circuit, thus triggering the button, that is exactly how the "newer" metal pads work, such as the Cobalt Flux. Obviously you need some sort of electronics somewhere, like in an external box. However, as some companies love to prove, just because you can make a pad just like something like a CobaltFlux for much cheaper, doesn't mean it will be just as good. Just a reminder that if you really want this to work out, don't buy the cheapest parts you can find, because if like you said this totals $30 for a 4 button pad, why not spend another $30 for some higher quality parts, and not risk the chance of it breaking?

[intrest86]

Solid State typically refers to a piece of technology that requires no moving parts. Since it has no moving parts, it tends to be more reliable, since there is nothing to break down from frictional wear and tear. That means that this pad requires no weatherstripping, no sheet-metal contacts, no angle brackets to keep the plastic from raising to high.

The mechanics are simplified, even though the electronics are more complicated. Generally, however, electronic circuits are more reliable. For example, the mechanical soft pads tend to have problems with sticky arrows. The eletrical solution I am using will automatically compensate for sticky arrows.

The materials I am using are hardly the cheapest available. The reason I save money is because the physical design of the pad is much more simplistic. The pad can be much thinner, because there is no need for arrow wells. Since there is no need for supports for arrow wells, there is no need to support the supports. In other words, 2x4s become non-necessary. The entire design can be a compact sandwhich of materials.

But you don't have to believe me, lets see if I can make it first
Until then, could someone answer this question?

The pad will be more than $30, that was the amount I could save by not including angle brackets. They have no functional purpose, only aesthetic qualities. The question is, are the aesthitc qualities of angle brackets worth $30?

[Silly Puppy]

Funny you should ask that; I rarely play in the arcade, but adore my Cobalt Flux at home. This weekend, when I played in Reno in an arcade, I hated the way the pad felt; the brackets just keep getting in the way, and I didn't enjoy it nearly as much. If it could be as flat as the CF, I'd be really interested in trying your design out!

(I'm in Sacramento, in case you feel like bringin' it down here when it's done for some play!)

Puppy
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[ddrpablo]

well once you do post some pics

[intrest86]

Progress:

I purchased all of the eletrical components required to make the touch sensors today, and they did in fact come to just over $10. That does not include the PS-Controller, but I have found a large supply of controllers for $7 a piece.

In the interest of at least starting with a simple prototype, there will be no angle brackets.

The current projected price for building one pad is $90.[/i]

[littlesushi]

I read Solid Snake metal pad...-_______-

Really do try to get pictures up as you progress.

[intrest86]

Of course

Those components should arrive in the mail by Monday, as long as UPS Ground is as fast as they say they are. I'll just take a snapshot of the components once they get to me. It will take me a day or two probably to try wiring it all up, and by then I should know whether or not this entire scheme will work. If it does, I'll stick a video just of the Touch Sensor to show that it works

Now... who is Solid Snake?

[TheManOfTheSea]

Solid Snake is a character from the Metal Gear series. Doesn't have anything to do with DDR (besides that both games are made by Konami.. hm)
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[intrest86]

Lol, I was worried he was another designer that never quite got finished

I've been shopping around for sheet metal, and at least think I have found a good deal. I was going to work my own metal, so I was shopping for somewhere to supple. Turns out Home Depot here doesn't carry any sheetmetal at all >_<

I was calling around, and found a shop that would sell me the amount of scrap I needed for $10. After inquiring into what I was doing, the guy on the phone was aghast that I would even think of doing something like using a mallet to shape the metal to a block of wood. He said that the shop would sell me thicker metal and do the shaping for $30, at much higher quality.

So unless someone tells me I am being cheated, I think I will go with that.

I do have a question though: When securing the diagonal squares (the sheet metal covered squares), would it be better to put the screws in from the top where the would be visible, or come up from the bottom and recess the heads so that they are just about invisible?

[Devil Warrior]

Well, I for one would hate to step on a screw that somehow managed to work its way to the top of the pad, pointies = bad. Then again, if you flattened the tip it wouldn't be much of a problem. However, solid state doesn't mean "clean-free", and someone will probably want to clean the pad. Hard to take stuff apart to clean if you can't get at the screws as easily.

[intrest86]

Hmmm... Well, I at least assume I can prevent the screws by being a problem by being sure to use only the proper length. That way, it would never be possible for thescrew to penetrate the top. But still, wouldn't Aluminum sheet metal stop this?

Also, what do you mean by cleaning? How disassemblable does this need to be?

[ThreeFeetElite]

[blue-kun]

This is an interesting idea... Exactly which sensing technology are you using? Because I have seen some similar sensor in the past (www.qprox.com) and they didn't have the response time fast enough...

Eugene
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[intrest86]

Qprox is indeed what I am testing this with, but I think I will be able to get it to be responsive enough with some changes suggested in the documentation. Thats what this will come down to most likey, tweaking the system correctly to respond nicely.

Do you know any details about the system you mentioned?