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cristyne
Trick Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2002
Location: Northern California |
20.  Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2002 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom Servo wrote: | Only two responses I have to this thread:
1) If you're going to put up the top post telling people not to ask for MP3s, the least one could do is refer people to a place where one could legally obtain versions of the songs (import soundtracks, stores that carry CDs with it, etc etc), not just tell them to get lost.
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The link to buy ddr up there ^ has always been there. There is a link to nearly all the DDR soundtracks out there.... and then some.
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"Sometimes when you hold out for everything, you walk away with nothing...." - Ally McBeal |
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Red Hot Cohen Pepper
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, California |
| 21. Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2002 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| [rant]I don't get what everyone's (not here, but all around the internet) big deal is about mp3s. It's a format for God's sake! Everyone thinks now if you say the word em pee three that you are some sort of demon and you should be cast to hell. As some person (forgot) said, all the damn web hosting servers will shut down your service if they find one file with a .mp3 extension... They don't even check to see if it is a copyrighted work, they just decide "WOAP! It's an MP3! That loser's service is gone!"... it pisses me off. mp3 does NOT stand for illegal file, it's simply a type of encoded mpeg media file. I mean, what if people started taking pictures out of magazines and formatting them to JPEG images, then sharing them over file sharing portals...people wouldn't start saying "OOH you said JPEG you're EVIL and ILLEGAL!!!", so I don't know why everyone thinks the mp3 format is illegal somehow...hell, whenever I record something I always encode it as mp3...people piss me off when they don't know poopy about what they're talking about...[/rant] |
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PMG
Maniac Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Riverside, CA |
| 22. Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2002 12:19 am Post subject: |
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YOU WANT MP3S HERE
www.google.com
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Doctor Crayfish
Trick Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Location: Tacoma, Washington |
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krikkit
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Champaign, IL |
| 24. Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2002 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| But it certainly would ruin the whole ad campaign on the site to buy the DDR soundtracks, wouldnt it? |
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Tom Servo
Trick Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Location: Santa Monica |
| 25. Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2002 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| cristyne wrote: | | The link to buy ddr up there ^ has always been there. There is a link to nearly all the DDR soundtracks out there.... and then some. |
Fair 'nuff, but as far as a UI standpoint goes, I literally have never before noticed that bar. It's aligned so well with the ad banner that my brain saw it as part of the ad banner. I never thought to look at it for anything other than some goofy advertisement for Crucial Technology (or whatever is advertising there at that point).
Nonetheless, I think it would be a good addition to the text of the first post, but your point is well taken. Thanks. |
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Doctor Crayfish
Trick Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Location: Tacoma, Washington |
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Spike
Administrator
Joined: 17 Jan 2002
Location: Denver |
| 27. Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2002 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| PooPNeoNFX wrote: | | A link to a website that DOES distribute Mp3's is not illegal. This website wouldn't be shut down or warned if users posted links to Mp3 websites, or any other websites for that matter. |
Can you point out where it says that we wouldn't be under legal liability? By pointing people to a place where they can get pirated materials, we would be helping them get it. JDogg actually could be held legally liable. That's why we lock threads and don't allow people to ask for mp3's.
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Doctor Crayfish
Trick Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Location: Tacoma, Washington |
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krikkit
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Champaign, IL |
| 29. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
d) INFORMATION LOCATION TOOLS.;A service provider shall
not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection
( j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright
by reason of the provider referring or linking users to an
online location containing infringing material or infringing activity,
by using information location tools, including a directory, index,
reference, pointer, or hypertext link, if the service provider—
1)(A) does not have actual knowledge that the material
or activity is infringing;
B) in the absence of such actual knowledge, is not aware
of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is
apparent; or
C) upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts
expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material;
2) does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable
to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider
has the right and ability to control such activity; and
3) upon notification of claimed infringement as described
in subsection (c)(3), responds expeditiously to remove, or disable
access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or
to be the subject of infringing activity, except that, for purposes
of this paragraph, the information described in subsection
(c)(3)(A)(iii) shall be identification of the reference or link, to
material or activity claimed to be infringing, that is to be
removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information
reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to locate
that reference or link.
-Digital Millenium Copyright Act,
Online Copyright Infringement
Liability Limitation Act
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This includes direct references to: "An order restraining the service provider from providing access to a subscriber or account holder of the
service provider's system or network who is engaging in
infringing activity and is identified in the order, by terminating
the accounts of the subscriber or account holder
that are specified in the order."
Providing access, linking, witholding of liability. These things are directed towards the people who rent DDRFreak its equipment and service, not DDRFreak itself, as DDRFreak is the renter who would be infringing.
Regardles of wether you could argue this down, this is all it takes to get the site shut down while they argue it out in legal circles.
I suppose an argument could be made that by not discouraging the act of posting links, they are in fact encouraging it. Even if the messageboard AUP indemnifies them, becoming a place of MP3 trading would, at the least, make Konami frown heavily upon the site.
AND:
| Quote: |
Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. It is well established by judicial decisions in the United States that this limited exception does not apply to game data contained in ROM semiconductor chips in video game cartridges. Therefore, whether you have already an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.
-Nintendo.com
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gs68
Trick Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Location: on a plane |
| 30. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| I won't tell you where I got MP3s of Drop Out, MAX300, and D2R. So there. |
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B*Real
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Plano,TX |
| 31. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| [The Wired] Lain wrote: | | To Capcom man: Hey man, looks like you got your wish! Now n00bs at least SEE this sticky and think twice about posting anything about downloading MP3s. |
I think I already know that. I still wished we were allowed to post websites with MP3's.
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Monkeys and Peinguins>you |
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Doctor Crayfish
Trick Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Location: Tacoma, Washington |
| 32. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| krikkit wrote: | | Quote: |
d) INFORMATION LOCATION TOOLS.;A service provider shall
not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection
( j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright
by reason of the provider referring or linking users to an
online location containing infringing material or infringing activity,
by using information location tools, including a directory, index,
reference, pointer, or hypertext link, if the service provider—
1)(A) does not have actual knowledge that the material
or activity is infringing;
B) in the absence of such actual knowledge, is not aware
of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is
apparent; or
C) upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts
expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material;
2) does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable
to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider
has the right and ability to control such activity; and
3) upon notification of claimed infringement as described
in subsection (c)(3), responds expeditiously to remove, or disable
access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or
to be the subject of infringing activity, except that, for purposes
of this paragraph, the information described in subsection
(c)(3)(A)(iii) shall be identification of the reference or link, to
material or activity claimed to be infringing, that is to be
removed or access to which is to be disabled, and information
reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to locate
that reference or link.
-Digital Millenium Copyright Act,
Online Copyright Infringement
Liability Limitation Act
|
This includes direct references to: "An order restraining the service provider from providing access to a subscriber or account holder of the
service provider's system or network who is engaging in
infringing activity and is identified in the order, by terminating
the accounts of the subscriber or account holder
that are specified in the order."
Providing access, linking, witholding of liability. These things are directed towards the people who rent DDRFreak its equipment and service, not DDRFreak itself, as DDRFreak is the renter who would be infringing.
Regardles of wether you could argue this down, this is all it takes to get the site shut down while they argue it out in legal circles.
I suppose an argument could be made that by not discouraging the act of posting links, they are in fact encouraging it. Even if the messageboard AUP indemnifies them, becoming a place of MP3 trading would, at the least, make Konami frown heavily upon the site.
AND:
| Quote: |
Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. It is well established by judicial decisions in the United States that this limited exception does not apply to game data contained in ROM semiconductor chips in video game cartridges. Therefore, whether you have already an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.
-Nintendo.com
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Ok then, since you seem to know every detail about the law, how about explaining to me why programs such as Morpheus (a very well known mp3 exchanging program which has pretty much replaced napster) isn't shut down? Why are Mp3's still easily obtainable on the web if they are illegal under any circumstance. This cannot be a product of the government simply not 'cracking down' on the problem because had the government sat back and let this happen while it was illegal, you can bet that the music industry would've stepped up.
And what do you expect Nintendo to say? "Download roms people! They're legal." or maybe even more realisticaly (but still no way they'd say it) "We do not support the distribution of roms. Although under some circumstances they are legal, we still don't want you to download them" (basically summing up what they wouldn't say). The law can be interpreted in many different ways.
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 Colt hates you and your family! |
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krikkit
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Champaign, IL |
| 33. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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For one, I don't see how I can show you a company's public policy on distribution of material, and then have you say that they are somehow lying. Don't forget that these rules mostly apply to games that are no longer published or profitable, and yet they still pursue ROM distribution sites.
I have contacted Nintendo's legal department about this idea, and I'll try to obtain specific court rulings to corroborate, because the cited FAQ is put rather in layman's terms.
Your argument about Morpheus was one of the major focal points of the legal foray that went down when Napster first came into the limelight. It comes down to the concept of P2P sharing. The files are never stored on their servers, so they argue they are indemnified. The distributors are the people who run the program with access to their unlicensed copies. And in case you don't keep up with the news on it, they are -still- arguing these points in court, which is why Napster didnt win outright. Major gray zones, Napster had to give up ground. The law is not in stone yet, we are in the molding era of these rights and regulations, so expect the policies to change slightly every day. Morpheus is getting majorly popular, so I would expect legal attention by some bigwig somewhere soon enough, within a year.
And I hope to god I -do- know plenty about these things, as an aspiring digital musician and sound engineer/foley artist. I better damn well have at least a half-assed idea about what will and will not screw me, and what I am and am not allowed to do to make money.
I was studying these things right before Napster blew up and got shut down, wrote a major paper on it, and I still keep an eye on it. I'm sure I'm behind the breaking news nowadays, because frankly my attention has been on other things..like college and career.
Lastly, what do you mean, The RIAA would have stepped up? The RIAA -did- step up. After Metallica and Dr. Dre went after Napster, the RIAA has been leading an unholy crusade against online digital media, which now has been extended BEYOND completely illegal material, to the point that they are now fairly succeeding in putting a bill through which will cause independant internet radio station operators to have to pay through the nose to do their broadcasts. Whatever you think the RIAA isnt doing, it -is-.
They just tried, and failed, to pass a bill which would allow them to hack computers in order to find out if they had illegal media on them. |
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Fila85
Basic Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2002
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| 34. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 5:13 pm Post subject: hey |
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hey...that was tricky and clever...
yet i liked it...
thanks C |
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Doctor Crayfish
Trick Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Location: Tacoma, Washington |
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JGB
Trick Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2002
Location: Seattle, WA |
| 36. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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I am mixed here:
On one hand, I think Mp3 = Stealing. Yes, I do it just like the next guy, but 90% of the time it is a record I own and do not want to be arsed carrying my stereo to the den. (my comp's CD player refuses to work)
In this case it is ok, to a degree.
On the other hand some people are
-Too damn lazy to get off thier arses and buy the CD
-Don't want to spend money on something they can get for free
-Not completely aware what they are doing is wrong
-Unable to find the album that thier said fave songs are on (this kinda goes with the first reason of the list)
IMHO, I belive Mr. J Dogg set this site up so DDR players around the world could communicate with each other about things that are good involving DDR and other things; not to have people asking "Where can I find a good quality MP3 of Paranoia Millenium?" That is total BS, and those responsible know it. I believe that question is about as valid as "Hey, got any good drugs?"
(Note: The opinions and thoughts expressed by lankkyddrboy are not neccessarily those of DDR Freak and its Subsidiaries.) |
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Spike
Administrator
Joined: 17 Jan 2002
Location: Denver |
| 37. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PooPNeoNFX wrote: | [
Mp3's are not illegal. As previously discussed in another thread, things like roms are legal to download so long as you own a copy of that game. This is also true for Mp3's. Whether or not a person owns a copy of the CD is not at all JDogg's responsibility or business and cannot be held liable for providing a link to another website in which Mp3's are provided. This is why Mp3 websites also have a disclaimer. This is also why every single Mp3 website on the net hasn't been banned.
It would take me forever to point out where it says that you wouldn't be held liable. It's easy to find things that are illegal, but most people don't spend time telling you what is legal  |
You're right, the mp3 file format is not illegal. However, how many people do you honestly think ask for mp3's because they have the soundtrack? Why not just ask for a ripping program? It's faster for me to download a ripping program and rip the songs than it is to download all the mp3's, and I have an Ethernet connection. In fact, I don't even have to worry about downloading the program, because one came with my computer. The majority of the people that would ask for mp3's here are asking because they do not own the CD, and they would rather just download it for free and pirate it.
And certain websites have been shut down, but not all. www.mp3.com has not been shut down because the artists give permission, and they also sell CD's that will send money to the artist. You can download music from www.cdnow.com but you have to pay for it. However, they're trying to shut down websites that give out copyrighted material without giving any money to the artist.
And I think that JDogg wouldn't just say "Well, possibly I could be held liable, but possibly not, so I'll just say that I would be." If there was no way we'd be held liable, and it didn't matter if we helped get people to do it or not, then why would JDogg say that the reason we don't allow links to pirated materials is because we could be held legally liable?
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Tom Servo
Trick Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Location: Santa Monica |
| 38. Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, as far as mp3's go, I've bought at least 10 times more CDs now that I've been using Napster/KaZaA/whatever than when I didn't. People tell me about bands, I go on one of those services, grab a few tracks, and if I like 'em, I buy their CD. I do the same thing with games as well. Frequency has sold me at least three different CDs (Dub Pistols, Lo Fi All-Stars, Freezepop) that I wouldn't have bought if I weren't able to grab a few of their songs online and decided that I liked more than one song.
Honestly, I doubt this would be the case with DDR stuff, I mostly listen to the mp3s to learn the songs before I play, so I have a general idea of what type of beat I'm listening for. Otherwise, the songs are rarely my type of music.
Nonetheless, the music industry is plain stupid for not embracing technology and using it to their advantage. It is literally impossible to fight a file standard, especially when it's as uncontrollable as MP3s are now (even if they banned every MP3 encoder, how many of us have at least 3 different encoders that we could easily share with our friends? If not, why not Ogg Vorbis to take its place?). Mp3s will be around until a better standard comes out, a better standard that also allows for open sharing. It's something the industry needs to learn and to adjust to. |
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krikkit
Trick Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2002
Location: Champaign, IL |
| 39. Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 8:57 am Post subject: |
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They are too one-tracked to think about good ways to capitalize on it. The samet hing happend over 20 years ago when the home audio tape was released to the public. People started making copies of albums for their friends and passing tapes along. Believe it or not, the RIAA freaked back then, and went looking for reparations dut to loss of revenue(just like today, with MP3s.)
Why did they shut up about tapes? Because to this day, we are paying a 3% tax on -all- recordable media(thats audio tapes, video tapes, CD-Rs, you name it) that goes directly to the RIAA for supporting their losses of revenue from the audio tape revolution. They got that, they shut up(they dont complain about it anymore..its like its okay as long as they have money, go figure). If they could tax MP3's, they would and they would shut up about all their "artist's rights" crap. But they cant tax the flow of internet traffic, so they continue to whine and cry. |
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