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AA Bob
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0.  Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: Becoming a visual player |
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For as long as I've been playing dancing games, I've been an "audial" player. I always focus on the judgment area when I play, only glancing briefly up at the target arrows on certain parts of some songs (end of Da Roots, etc.) This has worked reasonably well for me since I play at home where there isn't much background noise, but it really hurts my scores at the arcade.
Because of that, I'm trying to become a visual player, i.e. someone who stares at the target arrows when they play. I've been trying it for the past day or so, and there are a few things I need to know:
- What part of the target area should I focus on? When I play the way I normally do, I stare right at the center of the judgment area. Should I just transfer this up a few inches, staring right between the down and up arrows? Or should I sometimes follow the arrows around, watching different target arrows depending on which ones are coming up the screen?
- How much attention should I pay to the judgment area? I can't decide whether to watch it in my peripheral vision, or disregard it and focus completely on where I'm hitting the arrows relative to the target area.
- This is how the good ITG players play, right?
Obviously, this applies to DDR as well, but I'm guessing that a lot of the people most qualified to answer this can be found in this forum.
Thanks.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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RBCF retunes
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| 1. Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly, I find it easiest to rely partly on both. To do this, I suggest you pay most attention to the space between the step zone and judgment area.
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mydixiewrecked
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| 2. Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I am by no means a great player, but I'll tell you how I play. I stare in the judgement area, at the center of my side of the screen. I don't follow arrows around, I stare at the same spot the whole time. It helps me be a visual and an audial player at the same time because I believe you can be a better visual player by paying attention to the judgements than you can by looking at the target arrows. I can tell the syncing of the arrows by based on the judgements while I'm stepping on beat, if I get excellents, I'll adjust slightly to the syncing of the arrows so I can get Fantastics. I don't even pay attention to the target arrows most of the time. I don't know what the better players do, but I've found this to be most effective.
EDIT: I sort of just realized that this style of playing is not very visual at all and extraordinarily audial. Whatever, my bad. |
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AA Bob
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| 3. Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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RBCF: Interesting...I'll try that, but I thought that visual playing mainly involved noting where the onscreen arrows are, relative to the target area, when I step on the panels. It seems to me that that would be best accomplished by focusing on the target area.
Baggage: That's exactly what I do. Maybe I just suck at the arcade because I'm not used to it. Actually, that would be great, since completely changing the way I play would take a lot of work. I'm under the impression, though, that most of the top-tier players look at the target area. I could be wrong.
Edit: In response to your edit, I think you might be able to consider it visual playing because you're changing your timing slightly based on what you see. It probably involves listening more carefully than "true" visual playing, but I'm not sure I'd call it entirely audial.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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RBCF retunes
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| 4. Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Visual is paying attention to the screen, and audial is paying attention to the music. What I do is an even distribution between the two.
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QWERTYkid911: If someone posts porn, then this thread will perfectly represent the internet.
Slowpoke: Ah, so that's how He created the universe so quickly... He was hopped up on caffeine. Thanks for clearing up that philosophical mystery...
PooingCavy: (About difficulty levels) If I could make it up, it would be: Water, Soda, Coffee, Red Bull, ADHD |
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mydixiewrecked
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| 5. Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| RBCF retunes wrote: | | Visual is paying attention to the screen, and audial is paying attention to the music. What I do is an even distribution between the two. |
Well, you have to pay attention to the screen anyway or you can't see the arrows.  |
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Marq(uistadorous)
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| 6. Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion, where you look on the screen isn't that important. Just look where ever is the most natural place your eyes fall. I think if you can't hear the music well, that's always gonna hurt you some because you need to hear it. When I'm playing and trying to FA, I figure out the rythm I need to go at (some songs I get excellents because I'm ahead of the beat, sometimes I'm behind it). And try to keep that through out the whole song. For example, lets say I play Ize Pie and I feel like I have to step slightly late to get fantastics instead of excellents (which I do). Throughout the whole song, I try to focus on stepping behind the beat, with the same distance behind the beat for every single arrow (which is the hard part). My point is that you can't do this visually. You have to listen to the beat, because you can't see the gap as well as you can hear it.
That might have made no sense and been a little off topic, but whatev
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J. S. Mill
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| 7. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: Re: Becoming a visual player |
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| AA Bob wrote: | | - This is how the good ITG players play, right? |
Not exactly. Good ITG players are both audio and video.
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RBCF retunes
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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| 8. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Baggage wrote: | | RBCF retunes wrote: | | Visual is paying attention to the screen, and audial is paying attention to the music. What I do is an even distribution between the two. |
Well, you have to pay attention to the screen anyway or you can't see the arrows. |
That's pretty important, and what most replies have echoed.
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QWERTYkid911: If someone posts porn, then this thread will perfectly represent the internet.
Slowpoke: Ah, so that's how He created the universe so quickly... He was hopped up on caffeine. Thanks for clearing up that philosophical mystery...
PooingCavy: (About difficulty levels) If I could make it up, it would be: Water, Soda, Coffee, Red Bull, ADHD |
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AA Bob
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Alllll right! |
| 9. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Marquistadorous wrote: | | In my opinion, where you look on the screen isn't that important. Just look where ever is the most natural place your eyes fall. I think if you can't hear the music well, that's always gonna hurt you some because you need to hear it. When I'm playing and trying to FA, I figure out the rythm I need to go at (some songs I get excellents because I'm ahead of the beat, sometimes I'm behind it). And try to keep that through out the whole song. For example, lets say I play Ize Pie and I feel like I have to step slightly late to get fantastics instead of excellents (which I do). Throughout the whole song, I try to focus on stepping behind the beat, with the same distance behind the beat for every single arrow (which is the hard part). |
But wouldn't it take more steps to figure out how far offsync it was if you focused on the judgment? After all, you wouldn't know how far off the beat you were without getting a few Excellents as you tried changing your timing slightly until you lined up with the music. If you were looking at the targets the whole time, it would be immediately obvious that the song was offsync, and how far it was off.
| Marquistadorous wrote: | | My point is that you can't do this visually. You have to listen to the beat, because you can't see the gap as well as you can hear it. |
I'm not sure I agree with that. Listening to how far off the beat you are and repeatedly stepping a constant amount of time ahead or behind it is pretty hard to do. If you look at the targets, all you have to do is step on the arrows when they line up with them. An audial player has to do a lot of guessing on an offsync song, but a visual player always knows when to step.
| CEO Nwabudike Morgan wrote: | | AA Bob wrote: | | - This is how the good ITG players play, right? |
Not exactly. Good ITG players are both audio and video. |
Do you mean that they look back and forth between the targets and the judgment? Or maybe that they look at the targets and listen very carefully to the beat? Please elaborate.
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| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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IHYD.DukAmok
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Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Corona, CA |
| 10. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: | | CEO Nwabudike Morgan wrote: | | AA Bob wrote: | | - This is how the good ITG players play, right? |
Not exactly. Good ITG players are both audio and video. |
Do you mean that they look back and forth between the targets and the judgment? Or maybe that they look at the targets and listen very carefully to the beat? Please elaborate. |
i was going to be a dick and call you out on using fake words, but oops it turns out audial is a word. mah bad.
anyway, no, i just pretty much look at the judgment. just looking in one place doesnt mean im not aware of other things going on, though.
for instance, in my peripheral vision, i can see the arrows hit the targets, and through lots of practice, i guess, im generally able to tell when im starting to step early or late, just judging from when the arrows disappear around the targets.
i am neither an aural nor visual player, im a holistic player. i take cues from all the information coming at me, not limit it to just one area.
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| Sappy_!?! wrote: | | just to answer, if someone who stands next to you watching you play PSMO but you get a D on it, versus somebody who understands perfect attacking and stuff, will think you suck. A player is considered good in my opinion when a player of a higher level comments about you or see's you triple A a song. Or if somebody looks up to you. Hope it clarifies. |
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AA Bob
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| 11. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, that makes sense. I guess I'll stick with looking at the judgment. I thought that the way I played was going to make it hard to be good at the arcade, but if that's how you play, then I just need more practice.
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My Recall (home scores)
DDR/ITG videos
| Emptyeye wrote: | | So um, is it bad that awhile ago I was watching Family Guy, and when Quagmire came on, I thought something to the effect of "Whoa, It's AA Bob!" (I don't remember if the exact thought was "It's AA Bob" or "It's AA Bob's avatar", but I don't think it matters in this case)? |
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J. S. Mill
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Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: New York, New York |
| 12. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| AA Bob wrote: | | Do you mean that they look back and forth between the targets and the judgment? Or maybe that they look at the targets and listen very carefully to the beat? Please elaborate. |
Good players use whatever is most appropriate.
Video FA (judging by sight) is most useful during sections which are arythmatic (they don't go to the music) or musically unusual. In ITG2, because of the judgement marker, it also allows you to gauge very accurately where you are. Good visual skill means you will be less effected by arythmatic sections and better able to adjust on the fly.
Audio FA (judging by sound) is most useful during sections where visual FA is somehow negated, either due to strange effects (Robotix, Post) or due to modifiers. In addition, if Video FA is best at adjusting to individual steps, Audio FA is best at generating solid consistent scores across the song. Good Audio skill means you will be less effected by modifiers and better able to hold through the song.
Physical FA (judging by movement) is most useful during sections in which your physical movement allows you to key to the song, such as long runs. Good physical FA is what allows good players to play runs so consistently and so impressively, and also why you see players add steps frequently.
If you get good at all three, you have less weaknesses and so you are correspondingly better.
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hommfreak
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| 13. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I didn't even know there were different styles to reading the arrows until now.
Personally, I watch the arrows go up the screen at a certain point (the point is dependant on the BPM and speed mods). I listen to my feet to step accurately. I don't even know until the end of the song if I got a ton of excellents or not because I ignore the judgements. I'll have to do some experimenting! |
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mydixiewrecked
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Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| 14. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| RBCF retunes wrote: | | Baggage wrote: | | RBCF retunes wrote: | | Visual is paying attention to the screen, and audial is paying attention to the music. What I do is an even distribution between the two. |
Well, you have to pay attention to the screen anyway or you can't see the arrows. |
That's pretty important, and what most replies have echoed. |
I was just pointing out that you have to pay attention to the screen either way. It's a really dumb observation that has really nothing to do with anything which is why I added that "" at the end. |
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Kaku
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| 15. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I hum the melody of Robotix over and over at a constant rate during the middle part since there is no way for me to hear or see the notes correctly. What would I be?
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IHYD.DukAmok
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| 16. Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| CEO Nwabudike Morgan wrote: | | Audio FA (judging by sound) is most useful during sections where visual FA is somehow negated, either due to strange effects (Robotix, Post) or due to modifiers. |
totally disagree on that one
i do the middle of robotix completely visually. i stare at the right arrow target and look for where the arrow flashes. if i start to drift, i can usually tell before i get excellents.
otherwise, yes, what cory said.
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| Sappy_!?! wrote: | | just to answer, if someone who stands next to you watching you play PSMO but you get a D on it, versus somebody who understands perfect attacking and stuff, will think you suck. A player is considered good in my opinion when a player of a higher level comments about you or see's you triple A a song. Or if somebody looks up to you. Hope it clarifies. |
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RBCF retunes
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mistereff
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| 18. Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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First post in DDR freak in about 2years!!
Anyway....
I'm a regular at my arcade, and I'm not amazing or anything, but I'm pretty sure I can speak for everybody at my arcade.
Of the 5 or 6 GOOD regulars in my arcade, all of us can regularly 99+% 9 level songs, and 99+% 10 level. 2 or 3 of us can 99+% 11s and 12s (not me). That should establish us anyway.
I'm going to say that we all (even the not so good ones) play mostly audibly. I'm going to say 90% audio, 10% visual. Basically, we only look at the arrows to know what arrows to push. If you're looking for a high score, there's no way in hell that you're going to be able to get anything higher than a 90% visually. We will frequently resync songs if they're off by less than a 10th (or more) of a second. You can hear the difference.
Also, physically, you HAVE to keep your body moving. Step hard on the beat. I'm not saying break the pads, but move hard enough to maintain beat. |
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J. S. Mill
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Joined: 28 Apr 2003
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| 19. Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Everything about that post was wrong. First of all, there are lots of purely (virtually 100%) visual players much better than you. Blake comes to mind (100% on VerTex, 1 on Monolith, 100% on One False Move, 99.6% Average, World Top Ten).
Second of all, there are lots of very good players who barely step on the pad (you can't hear them standing right next to them). Ryan (DukAmok) is like this (99%+ on Pandemonium, FEC Determinator, the only person who can pass The A La Menthe).
You have no idea what you are talking about, sorry. What you said is not true for ITG and has never been true for DDR.
| drdanger wrote: | | If you're looking for a high score, there's no way in hell that you're going to be able to get anything higher than a 90% visually. |
Just to drive the point home, this was done by a completely (95%+) visual player:
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